Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have to say that if a player doesn't undock because of implants and you bring in boosters instead (thus nerfing the risk/reqard of players who *will* undock in said implants) the players who won't undock will still stay docked. They are risk averse. They don't want to lose stuff at any cost. Next they would complain about clone expense and why do we have to pay for them (and peope already are complaining about it). Or some other reason.

Those who do not undock will play the game in the same way no matter what you nerf to make it more palatable for them. As I pointed out earlier the difference in learning time between +3's and +5's is about 5 days or so. What is so important to do in that 5 days that means a player who doesn't want to lose +5's can't just do what they currently do for less than a week?

Crap grammar and syntax here before the academic police jump on me :D I'm just typing quickly in work :)

it isn't an artificial choice though by that measure...you are choosing better PvP performance over increased learning time. If the player with learning implants in then chooses not to undock they should reconsider the level of learning implants they are willing to lose. Again people seem to be hung up on how many SP they have and that isn't the defining attribute in the game, only the SP in the skills you are currently using count in any way. The difference between using +3's and +5's is not that much. Whilst it is nice to train a little faster it isn't worth it if it'll stop you from undocking.

Agreed, I proposed the same in one of the various threads on this subject, although I think I made it reduced by 3 hours per level, phr cooldown minimum so the average player would probably have to trade a days play for a days lower training, but not be so constrained by JC times. 1 hour per level just seems way too low for that skill.

Decreasing jump clone time is a solution but would complicate other areas of the game. I thunk it is already far too easy to cross the map and further decreasing jump clone time would just enhance power projection further.

to all those whining about 'risk averse players' and nullsec gouging the market, please look at the (updated) front post:

the gas would come from low, thus preventing too much of a monopoly
the OP claims to fly PVP with more expensive implants than +5's (I presume this is something like a snake set or w/e)
he also claims to know how to keep his pod safe (mostly)
the boosters would cap out at a certain attribute max so +5's wouldn't benefit from using them
+5's have taken a month or two off my skill plan to date, and I've had them a smidgen over a year (I also remap, which probably helps....)
this is not about being able to JC back and forth quickly - it's about being able to swap to your uber PVP clone without suffering too many learning penalties for those times when you have half an hour or so....


I think OP's forgotten that at some point these boosters will finish, and you're in the same boat - and no - I do not think that having them last for a week or so is viable.

So summarising this entire thread and those that spawned it.

Those who have the skills are in favour of training being a long rewarding progression to eve nirvana.

Those who are yet to gain the skills would like the training to be shorter by whatever means can be made possible, either by reducing the time needed or with a mechanic that maximises training speed.

Which method will result in player retention or gain, and which will maintain the status quo?

Will a change similar to removing learning skills, make the game worthless for existing players?
Will a change similar to removing learning skills, make the game more enjoyable for players under 1 or 2 years of game age.

Sometimes we avoid asking the right questions and will not listen to them when asked, because we are afraid of the answer.

Maybe we should be either asking the right question or be willing to listen to the answer rather than hiding from it by finding fault with the mechanic or whether the questioner is fit to ask it in the first place.

There again those who questions things in the real world often get boiled in oil or burnt at the steak as a heretic.

But it would be nice to be able to hear the questions over the calls to burn the witch!

Reducing JC timers would hardly increase power projection. It's already possible to just podjump around, which is what many/most nullsec alliances actually do. Podjump costs are almost completely negligible even for >100m SP pilots, that is to say they're an annoying and dumb inconvenience to pay but not something that will discourage people from podjumping to that stratop if they have to. If you have expensive implants, just jump to an empty clone and podjump.

What reducing JC timers would do is increase convenience. The current clone/attribute system greatly disfavours some groups of people and favours others -- clone costs are completely negligible to people with less than 70-ish million SP and don't really discourage people from podjumping, while they discourage pilots with 150m SP from going on drunken zero-fugs-given roams in T1 frigates into nullsec because their empty pod will cost more than the entire fleet combined (which I repeat isn't a prohibitive cost, but a principally annoying one).

Additionally, the implants/attributes system disfavours people with low SP who really need those critical skills to get into the game properly, while the effect is greatly diminished for people with high SP. The starter pack learning boosters help this to some degree, but I would consider it somewhat of a bandaid fix to a fundamentally illogical system. For a veteran pilot a 4-day train is a short one, but for a newbie fresh and excited about the game it can feel like an eternity, especially if it's the thing keeping them from progressing to the next step.

Personally I feel like skill training time should be a constant, same for everyone, or alternatively favour fresh characters instead of old or rich characters who can afford learning implants. SP is the most fundamental concept in Eve, and the way attributes interact with it feels kind of out of place and outdated. The whole remap/implant system feels like it was specifically built to give veteran players training alts an edge, while shafting newbies who waste all their remaps and put SP into mining.

As a side note, removing learning skills had to be the best thing CCP's ever done to fix the training system. Back when I started and they were still in the game I actually took a month's (or two's) break just logging in to train learning skills so I wouldn't be rump ravaged trying to train other skills. That definitely wasn't my fondest memory of Eve (but getting the "free" SP later when they were finally removed felt kinda good), and I wouldn't mind another change like the removal of learning skills, be that removing clone grades altogether or doing something about the silly attribute system.

I have to disagree here...I've been playing just over six months and have been building control towers for 4 months, and inventing tech II goods for two, this is whilst still running missions. I made choices that worked out for me and in no way believe that the progression in careers I can perform is slow

I usually have +3s on all my characters PvP or otherwise.

Getting rid of something because X does not want to use it because they are afraid of losing it in PvP while Y is a station dweller, is just plain silly.

Some of us are responding to more recent postings and the current iteration of the thread and idea.

Besides, I've posted regarding the OP prior.... many pages ago.