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NEWS - ISHUKONE ADMINISTRATORS ANNOUNCE ARCURIO TAKEOVER BID
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Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#41 - 2014-04-11 22:48:51 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I can't recall ever hearing complaints.

As I recall hearing from a buddy in Fed Nav R&D, the main concerns are various isolated incidents that are difficult to replicate in a lab. Stuff like the sonic vibrations causing a guy's eyes to pop out, or a woman's internal bleeding caused by the rupturing of especially weak bowel tissue during the induced spasms.


Well, that can be an issue, yes. But, then, you should see some of the wicked side effects that the emetic gas grenades can present when they interact with medication or, worse, boosters. I think the idea of Sicksticks is that they're, as Stitcher said, LESS lethal not completely non-lethal. Back in the bad old days, the cops used to just use sticks or batons - can you imagine the damage that used to inflict?

You forgot the PEPs kirjuun. Thats mostly what we had for civilian riot detail while my unit was on Cal Prime. You've used one. Smile

Anyways, all this discussion of less than lethal toys is relatively unrelated. We rarely used them. The sad truth is, most of what we did was keep the folks in those districts away from each others throats. Now, the situation isn't analagous, since nobody's really confined anywhere. Either it'll relieve the stress of being cooped up, or people will take the excuse to do stupid things. Anyone avoiding the latter really has nothing to worry about.
Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#42 - 2014-04-12 00:31:34 UTC
That's really good news.

Arcurio was always a sight to see, and even after the last turbulent years, an excellent place to do business. Hopefully, being passed to Caldari control, the city will regain complete stability and be able to thrive once again. Then we'll have a Caldari hub one warp away from the Gallente hub, and that can only mean prosperity for all.

I'm only wondering the price Ishukone is paying for that. I hope and I guess it will come in the form of free trade agreements. Makes no sense for the Federation to return Arcurio if the city becomes closed to it. Perhaps transfer of technology contracts as well.

The fact is that Ishukone isn't doing this in the name of pure altruism as well. To be the main broker of this deal will surely bring them significant economic return.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-04-12 01:24:48 UTC
Gregory Na'Dare wrote:
Nothing we say or do will change what has already happened on Caldari Prime. It seems the deal is done. Not meaning to offend Mr. Stitchers sensitivities, my limited experience has taught me that talking nice rarely has any positive effect when dealing with Caldari. My hope lies in the fair mindedness of the Federal negotiators.


If you want a demonstration of the power of diplomacy, look no further than the very thing you're so upset about.

It's not our fault if your objective is completely the opposite of our own. If you were trying to negotiate something even remotely agreeable to us, you'd find us to be perfectly reasonable.


AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Jonas Wickonian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-04-12 12:49:02 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Gregory Na'Dare wrote:
Nothing we say or do will change what has already happened on Caldari Prime. It seems the deal is done. Not meaning to offend Mr. Stitchers sensitivities, my limited experience has taught me that talking nice rarely has any positive effect when dealing with Caldari. My hope lies in the fair mindedness of the Federal negotiators.


If you want a demonstration of the power of diplomacy, look no further than the very thing you're so upset about.

It's not our fault if your objective is completely the opposite of our own. If you were trying to negotiate something even remotely agreeable to us, you'd find us to be perfectly reasonable.




and yet in this very thread there has been a voice saying violence is the answer, yes diplomacy and peace is the way forward, but there have been wars and during those wars long and sustained campaigns of propaganda from both sides. racist and violent elements exist on both sides, i'm not saying that the caldari getting back what belongs to them is bad, only that the police need to vigilant of bias when dealing with the hate crimes that will occur, and are occuring, from both groups.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-04-12 13:15:55 UTC
Apollo Lyserius wrote:
That's really good news.

Arcurio was always a sight to see, and even after the last turbulent years, an excellent place to do business. Hopefully, being passed to Caldari control, the city will regain complete stability and be able to thrive once again. Then we'll have a Caldari hub one warp away from the Gallente hub, and that can only mean prosperity for all.

Arcurio is symbolic for Caldari people, since during the liberation of this city from gallentean occupants, the greatest Caldari hero himself ripped off federation flag and hoisted Caldari flag over Municipal government HQ building.

Apollo Lyserius wrote:

I'm only wondering the price Ishukone is paying for that. I hope and I guess it will come in the form of free trade agreements. Makes no sense for the Federation to return Arcurio if the city becomes closed to it. Perhaps transfer of technology contracts as well.

The fact is that Ishukone isn't doing this in the name of pure altruism as well. To be the main broker of this deal will surely bring them significant economic return.

The only acceptable price is spilled blood of gallentean oppressors, that still occupy parts of our planet.
Any other price will turn Ishukone into coward spineless slugs, not deserving to be called Caldari.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#46 - 2014-04-12 14:30:57 UTC
Aww c'mon, are you so tight with other people's ISK that you won't let Ishukone spend theirs to recover one of the great cities of Home?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#47 - 2014-04-12 14:37:44 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

Arcurio is symbolic for Caldari people, since during the liberation of this city from gallentean occupants, the greatest Caldari hero himself ripped off federation flag and hoisted Caldari flag over Municipal government HQ building.


Thanks, Diana, but I know history.


Diana Kim wrote:
The only acceptable price is spilled blood of gallentean oppressors, that still occupy parts of our planet.
Any other price will turn Ishukone into coward spineless slugs, not deserving to be called Caldari.


How is spilling enemy blood paying a price? Don't fool yourself, Ishukone will probably give the Federation some quite worthy benefits.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-04-12 15:46:31 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Aww c'mon, are you so tight with other people's ISK that you won't let Ishukone spend theirs to recover one of the great cities of Home?

Ishukone money belongs to Caldari People! Reppola shouldn't give them away to enemy to buy what is ours and what can be taken by force.
Reppola is robbing our own nation!
And funding our enemy!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2014-04-12 15:52:39 UTC
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-04-12 16:03:49 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#51 - 2014-04-12 16:24:31 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.


That sounds like a very violation of Caldari ideals to me.... Why work hard for the benefit of your corporations and it's people if it can be taken away at a moments notice....

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#52 - 2014-04-12 16:25:38 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
They won't after they will be nationalized.

What? I don't know how you can say this, Diana.

There have been Caldari who are Liberals, Caldari who are Patriots, Caldari who are Practicals. There have been Caldari who want peace and Caldari who want war. We've had warlords and philosophers, artists and brutes, traitors and heroes, who have all shaped the meaning of what it is to be Caldari. And we've all agreed on one point.

That which you earn is yours, and you have no rights to the earnings of another. Take them by force if you must, but that's the only claim you can make on the earnings of others.

The concept of nationalization is a wholly foreign concept, and I'm shocked that you, of all people, would advocate it.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-04-12 16:37:52 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.


That's a pretty Gallentean thing to say...

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
#54 - 2014-04-12 17:01:23 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.


That's a pretty Gallentean thing to say...


I would only agree to a point. It is far more Gallentean to defend individual liberty rather than that of a collective.

Public Channel:  Polaris-Public Roleplaying Channel:  Gallente Lounge
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-04-12 19:06:18 UTC
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.


That's a pretty Gallentean thing to say...


I would only agree to a point. It is far more Gallentean to defend individual liberty rather than that of a collective.


Well I would say it's an Ultra-Nationalist thing. Which Ms.Kim would find even more abhorrent.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-04-12 19:19:31 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.


That's a pretty Gallentean thing to say...

One day they start talking about nationalization, the next you find them guzzling a Big Slurp of Quafe, wearing a gaudy t-shirt two sizes too small (especially after getting the implants), and showing off their new tramp stamp written in a language they don't even know.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#57 - 2014-04-12 21:41:02 UTC
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.


That's a pretty Gallentean thing to say...


I would only agree to a point. It is far more Gallentean to defend individual liberty rather than that of a collective.


But I would think we can both agree that the government stealing the savings, benefits and retirement pay of honest workers is a bad thing, no? I do find it interesting that the harder Ms Kim cries for the destruction of the Federation, the more she suggests paths that would destroy the State.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#58 - 2014-04-12 21:58:09 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

But I would think we can both agree that the government stealing the savings, benefits and retirement pay of honest workers is a bad thing, no? I do find it interesting that the harder Ms Kim cries for the destruction of the Federation, the more she suggests paths that would destroy the State.


An interesting observation indeed. It's a path travelled before, by Heth. The more he became obsessed with destroying the Gallente Federation, the less his actions & rulings befitted the State and it's future.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2014-04-12 21:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Point is, us Gallenteans trying to nationalize Caldari corporate property is why we stopped being friends with each other. Kim proposing the nationalization of Caldari corporations is the exact opposite of what the Caldari stand for.

Jandice Ymladris wrote:


An interesting observation indeed. It's a path travelled before, by Heth. The more he became obsessed with destroying the Gallente Federation, the less his actions & rulings befitted the State and it's future.


As I always say, in an attempt to prove the Caldari were better than we were, the Provist only succumbed to our very same mistakes we made in the past.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
#60 - 2014-04-12 22:20:32 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ishukone money belongs to Ishukone shareholders - as is traditional!

They won't after they will be nationalized.


That's a pretty Gallentean thing to say...


I would only agree to a point. It is far more Gallentean to defend individual liberty rather than that of a collective.


But I would think we can both agree that the government stealing the savings, benefits and retirement pay of honest workers is a bad thing, no? I do find it interesting that the harder Ms Kim cries for the destruction of the Federation, the more she suggests paths that would destroy the State.


I find myself in agreement with you, Pilot Tuulinen, It is counterproductive and a crime against individual liberty to take that which another has earned. Redistribution of such is an affront against the potential everyone has.

Public Channel:  Polaris-Public Roleplaying Channel:  Gallente Lounge