Warfare & Tactics

Faction warfare brainstorming part 3: Revamp ideas – 1-complexes – 2-zones - 3-FW incursion “sieges”
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(EDIT)> problems are overlooked and we don't need to take out mechanics, potentially adding a few more to make it better? I dunno, either way I'll leave this section here for a foundation of ideas. not strictly viable, but there just in case.

The warzone can be great, and really crappy. There can be lots of variety and action, and it needs to remain that way, but also improved. There doesn't need to be a new plexing system. but more so additional attractions to draw people to the warzone. kinda like 3. suggests, incursion-esc FW mechanics, called"siege"

1. As we all may know, FW has different sizes of complexes, novice, small, medium, large. Larges plexes don’t spawn that much and are rarely fought in, I’d like BC size plexes to come back to have more BC sized fights as they don’t happen often. But again, we all know that sitting on a button for an allotted time is boring as hell. The adhd kicks in and we’d rather run around blowing things up.

So how can we change the plexing system to be more fun and productive? As a reminder, this is a war of two large factions, and we are only volunteers to help fight against the other. And so I think the plexes should change to a sort of mission in itself. You take the accel gate, come in and there’s a skirmish of plex relevant NPC sizes. Inside the plex, instead of a timer, there will be a control bar, and right now let’s say the bar is 50-50, you go in, navy rats are duking it out and as each NPC rat dies, the control bar goes to whoever is winning, once the bar is 100% in that factions favor, the plex is captured, the system raises in constellation and you gain LP for helping the navy. Perhaps we can make it so the warp in, and the rat fighting area are spaced out a bit, so you have to sacrifice the warp-in high ground or risk losing the site to just chance of rats winning/losing.

And with this in mind, let’s go back to plex sizes, each plex variant has a few different names. Being outpost, facility, installation, stronghold. This can changed to actually have different scenarios in each plex name. like a difficulty rating. Outpost is the easiest, and stronghold is the hardest. And with the bigger size plexes it also applies. Only novice-small-medium-Bc size plexs spawn in non-siege zones, which I will explained later. All of this in turn encourages for group play, and no stabbed farming. It might discourage solo, but one could sit outside the gate or inside on the warpin. Taking potshots at the enemy rats to give an edge to his navy allies. only novice-small-medium-Bc size plexs spawn in non-siege zones, which I will explain later.

2. Onto zones, having to worry about one system and focusing only on one system creates a lazy and narrow minded attitude. We need to give a reason to go out and fight in other systems other than our home. And so I think constellation sovereignty or “zones” would be appropriate. Yes, this is going into nullsec like mechanics, however having a FW version with its own style is completely reasonable.

Now, here we have a zone, a constellation, there can be 1 primary system, systems around the prime will be secondary systems, and if there’s more systems outside of that, they will be tertiary systems. Like a layer or walls to get to the keep. Or instead divide up the systems so that one can choose the layout, but make it so it has to be like 1-2-2-3-3-4 not 1-3-2-3-4-2 or some bullshit. Have it so like I said, layers of walls to get the keep.

And with this zone control, each layer should have set of bonus/effects dictated by upgrades from the primary system, which will have an echo penalty so the outer most wall has the least of the effects, and the deeper you go the greater the effects. Mind you these won’t be OP as **** effects. Maybe it will be reversed? Either way, I’m thinking the upgrades, which can be different per-zone or region and bought with LP. Can offer +sig spawn, +belt yields +inertia effects or armor/shield. Which can affect the whole system kinda like WH space effects and system cyno jammers. The cyno jammers could be enabled for a period of time and need LP to be used.

In addition to zones, Militia can use large sums of LP to buy either BPCs or an outpost/station hull. And be able to deploy it in primary and secondary FW systems. This militia outpost can only be dockable by militia, and perhaps a custom list of authorized neutrals. This outpost can be upgraded with LP, upgrades as listed above, but also station services, cheaper clones, less transaction tax, discount on offices +more offices available. and DUST related, which I will explain later on.
To take a zone, the attacking faction must start at the outer layer, instead of having a .6% per plex, there can be a navy presence bar, or control bar. Every plex fight is won by the attacking faction, will push the control bar in their favor. Once the bar reached 100% control. The attacking faction can deploy one territory claim unit at the ihub, or remove that and add a “navy starbase” or “broadcast unit” (which could be used to carry effects of the upgrades to that system). If the attacking faction manages to push to the next wall/layer, the entry system will be secured, and the claim unit invulnerable. However, solo or small gang of the defending faction can raid/skirmish in novice plexes in the secure system, which will lower the HP of the claim unit while the system is still secured.

If the opposing faction manages to take the zone, including the primary system, the outpost, like all other stations in systems cannot be dockable by the opposing faction. And the custom list of dockable neutrals can be wiped clean so no one but the owning milita and who they choose can dock. However, any NPC stations in FW systems can be used by all neutrals, kinda like it is now.

GAH WALL OF TEXT, rest of part 3 and 4 next post.

Srsly.. show me one guy in this part of the forum that would want to read your novel.. 10 months is nothing compared to the actual vets on both fronts to even start sharing ideas... Not wanting to be mean but its the truth

Your first idea has already been suggested numerous times in one form or another.

Your second idea sounds a bit interesting but you need to flesh it out a lot more, you just kind of ran through it breathlessly so its hard to get a sense of everything you'd like to do. Tbh it sounds like the same old "the current system upgrades suck, give us better ones" line, but it's still valid.

I don't like the third idea. We've had a lot of discussion in the past, and I think that most people agree, on the fact that no one wants to wake up one morning and be locked out of your system when you thought you were safe the night before. Big jumps in contested status are not a good thing, it moves fast enough as it is. People need some warning so they're not just instantly locked out of their stuff.

As for the fourth idea, I think its interesting, but I'd rather see the focus be on planets, not stations. So in addition to plexing and bashing the hub, your dust guys have to actually conquer every planet in order for the system to fully be wrested from them. Maybe tie planets to certain station services like repair or market or something.

Rule number one of fixing stuff - fix broken things first.

What is currently broken in minmatar/amarr:

1) Warzone control driven by farming alts.
2) LP payout for flipping i-hubs doesn't encourage people to participate.

Currently you can get about 1'200'000 LP for plexing system and only 40k for actually flipping it. Redistributing LP pool from plexing to i-hub bashing will fix both problems.

Actually considering how false this statement is I didn't really see the need to read the rest of your post. More of us would actually agree that is is by far the best iteration of FW to date. They already revamped it and it's pretty damn good. Sounds like you need to get used to the various cycles it goes thru with regards to activity/lack of activity and winning/losing.

FW is the sandbox that nobody wants to play in anymore because someone spread the rumour that the sand was peed on. As much as I agree some things are f'd about the mechanics, the bottom line is that it's down to the players to ignore the caveats and just dive in if they want a fun experience. As long as people shy away from moving their corp into a low-sec system and defending it, farmers can just farm their hearts out and nobody else will have any fun.

In that regard you'll find usually CCP does it the other way around

FW corps/alliances are not poor because they fly frigs/dessies.

They fly frigs/dessies because they are the best ships to fly when plex fighting. They are mobile, can get into the majority of plex's and when an experienced frig/dessie gang decides to lock down a system there is not much you can do to counter it, as Test found out when they decided to try and plex EHA (the systems was defended mainly by 2-3 guys conducting guerrilla tactics).

Not to put too fine a point on it. Within the first couple of sentences you demonstrate a very big lacking in understanding of how FW works and have obviously formed your opinion off the whines and gripes of others or have just kept yourself to a very small area of FW to base your experiences of.

FW is probably the best iteration it has ever been tbh. It is the ONLY area where you can comfortable and consistently fund your pvp activity while spending the majority of your time in pvp. Don't believe the hype of some of those 'elite piwate' groups you seem to worship they bear it up just as much, sometimes even more, than the people they claim to hunt. Hell most of them have multiple farmer/bear alts so they can go out and pvp in their blingy T3 fleets.

PVP is an isk sink in eve, always has been, always will be. It is what the underlying economy is based on. The people who actually make a profit from pure pvp is very very small (probably get a few replying to this claiming they do, but they are in the very small minority). FW does allow you to do that if you actual do FW. Fight over the plex's. Defend your space etc. You will get LP for kills and capping plex's.

I've recently returned to FW after a stint trying other forms of pvp (high sec wars, mission crashing etc) and being in low sec in FW allows me to both pvp and make enough isk to keep me pvp'ing. And guess what? I can still be a pirate if I want and kill anyone I fancy.

And for your comment about entering your own highsec when -5 sec or less. You are an outlaw! The faction police chase you not the navy. The navy chase the opposing militia.

Morale is actually quite high in the Minmatar militia... at least it is within the circles I'm a part of anyways.



Hahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Speak for yourself. I have billions of ISK worth in ships and mods that are all ready to go when the time calls for it... and billions of liquid ISK on top of that.

And I'm one of the POORER people in my alliance.


The reason I mainly use frigates, destroyers, and the odd cruiser is because...

1. they are equally useful running solo and in small gangs (versus a larger ship that often needs support).
2. they aren't caught as easily (because they are faster and more nimble)
3. they can bypass those large neutral T3 and HAC gangs with ease (refer to point #2).
4. no one is going to hotdrop a frigate/destroyer/cruiser...
--- and if someone is actually willing to hotdrop a frigate/destroyer/cruiser refer to point #2.


How about... "it's boring structure grinding and I have better things to do with my time... like hunt down war targets."


I'll give you this one. Most of the "vets" just go inactive when their militia hits Tier 4 because there are simply no targets around to shoot (because they have all been locked out of the low-sec stations).


I don't think you quite understand how much effort is required to set up a proper BS fleet. Especially when the threat of hotdrops is very real.

NOTE: Pandemic Legion has a base in Amamake which can reach almost all parts of the Minmatar/Amarr warzone. A "big" fight lasting more than 5 minutes is one they WILL show up to.


Niluso wrote:
if I can’t dock in an amarr held system in LOW SECURITY SPACE, then I shouldn't be able to dock in amarr HIGH SECURITY SPACE. Sorry for the caps, but it should be self explanatory. FW shouldn't be all about ganking unaware WTs in highsec then docking in their space. It’s stupid and if anything we want to bring more people to the warzone not push them away from it.

Counter proposal: remove all docking restrictions.
I personally believe this was one of the least good changes that came with the FW re-vamp. It does not encourage people to spread around the warzone... instead forcing people to concentrate their numbers and operations in "stronghold" systems... base out of "neutral" systems just outside the warzone... or base out of high-sec.

And honestly... bypassing the station lock-out is a joke. If you lose a system you drop militia for a day or two, move stuff around, then reapply (which some simply don't because they quickly realize, "hey, being neutral has most of the PvP benefits with none of the hassles!"). Or you can get neutral alts to do the moving for you.


Niluso wrote:
Next up is the missions/LP making ways. For the min/amarr warzone, being able to run L4s solo in a bomber is just ****** up. It discourages group play and encourages people not really invested in FW to come in and get rich with no real effort.

Let me let you in on a little secret... NO ONE who joins militia wants to PvE (unless they are farmers). Least of all with others. At all. Unless that PvE leads directly to PvP (like complexes, which force you to sit around for awhile). Otherwise... no one wants to do it unless they have to. Which again, they don't.
It's a means to an end. That end being more ISK for more PvP.


Niluso wrote:
Security status and standings. If I’m fighting for minmatar but can’t go into minmatar highsec without being shot by the NAVY I’M WORKING FOR because I’m -9 then well, that just doesn't make sense does it. Being in the militia I shouldn't take any security hits in the warzone for shooting neutrals or sentry gun aggro. Because militia should take priority not random non-FWs that come into our space, our warzone to blow things up.

Sorry... but roleplaying is the main reason for this.
You are a privateer in the purest sense... not a soldier. And the place we call the "warzone" is, to everyone else, just another part of "normal low-sec"... only with more people planting little flags and shooting each other. So the "normal rules of engagement" still apply to anyone who is not clearly marked as your enemy.

And just because you kinda work for for a Sovereign government and blow up people in their name... it doesn't mean your "criminal activity" should be excused or tolerated! You did, after all, shoot people who are recognized by CONCORD as neutral! So what if they entered your complex? They could just be curious! It's not their fault you are paranoid!


Seriously though... man up. Use that LP you farmed to buy some security status tags. Or just use a neutral hauler character like everyone else. There is rarely a reason for you to be in high-sec anyways... what with all the killin' and farmin' down in low-sec. Arrrr.

Some thoughts:

1. Folks talking about using frigs / dessies because they're the most flexible option for most situations are spot on.

2. Cal/Gal have absolutely no compunction about shipping up to larger boats if the situation calls for it. Faction cruiser brawls, ABC gangs, HAC roams... hell, we break out the BSes and the capitals to kick down POCOs and POSes and IHUBs when it's the best tool for the job. And yes, PL and the other big boys will absolutely hotdrop in on anything big and shiny if they can. Probably because the poor nullbears won't sack up and pick on someone their own size >:)

3. Gallente don't usually bother pushing for higher tier and larger warzone control because we can't AFK solo our L4s in meta fit stealth bombers. We require T3s / HACs to solo with, or gangs of 4-5 pilots in AFs / Bombers to be able to run missions. You farmtastic numpties in Cal/Min/Amarr have it far too easy.

4. Speaking of easy, anyone who doesn't live in a FW station and claims to be a FW-focused corp lacks conviction. Sack up, claim a system, make it your home, and defend it to the end. If it falls, fall back to the next one and make the bastards do it all over again. Gallente have held Nisuwa, Hallanen, Nennamalia, Vlillirier and Eha for ages - and no Caldari would claim those aren't Gallente home systems. Caldari had Innia for ages, and everyone knew it was theirs. Must be a farmville Min / Amarr cultural issue that causes you all to be so risk averse.

Plexes are fine, contested system is working as intended, backwater systems don't mean squat, WCS and cloaks are irrelevant. Fly shinies when you want to, just don't expect to get fights if you massively outclass your neighbors. Use the right tool for the job at hand, and for fux sake sack up and live in the warzone if you're going to call yourself a PvP focused FW corp.

Just my two isk.