These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Mining Barges and Exhumers

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#401 - 2014-04-11 18:19:09 UTC
Kellaen wrote:
Has any thought been given to allowing the Orca a compression ability like it's sibling the Rorqual?

Probably, but I don't think it'll happen since that would completely ruin the reason for the Rorq's existence. Better to buff the Orca in other ways (freighter-sized ore hold w/ barge-level agility, perhaps?)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#402 - 2014-04-11 18:27:58 UTC
Kellaen wrote:
Has any thought been given to allowing the Orca a compression ability like it's sibling the Rorqual?


why would they its just a industrial command ship .. so bonus to links is all it needs

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#403 - 2014-04-11 18:46:36 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Kellaen wrote:
Has any thought been given to allowing the Orca a compression ability like it's sibling the Rorqual?


why would they its just a industrial command ship .. so bonus to links is all it needs


If it could use anything, it would be a bigger ore hold. Not urgently, though.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#404 - 2014-04-11 19:19:05 UTC
Given the updates, I can't think of a reason to be unhappy. Addresses just about every grip I had with this revision and then some. Thanks Fozzie.
Kellaen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#405 - 2014-04-11 19:32:42 UTC
Atum wrote:
Kellaen wrote:
Has any thought been given to allowing the Orca a compression ability like it's sibling the Rorqual?

Probably, but I don't think it'll happen since that would completely ruin the reason for the Rorq's existence. Better to buff the Orca in other ways (freighter-sized ore hold w/ barge-level agility, perhaps?)

Considering the compression ability is already being mirrored via a POS array with the summer expansion, I don't see a problem. The Rorqual is not going to become useless overnight if for nothing else than it still has a much larger bonus to mining foreman links while deployed than an Orca (1.5x vs 1.15x).

My suggestion was more along the lines that some people have concerns with restricting the new compression mechanic solely to rorquals or pos modules, which excludes those newer to the industrial side of eve. Instead of it staying as so, or potentially becoming a default station service, give the Orca that ability.

Harvey James wrote:
Kellaen wrote:
Has any thought been given to allowing the Orca a compression ability like it's sibling the Rorqual?


why would they its just a industrial command ship .. so bonus to links is all it needs
Why does it have an ore bay, ship maintenance and corp hanger array then?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#406 - 2014-04-11 20:06:15 UTC
Kellaen wrote:
Atum wrote:
Kellaen wrote:
Has any thought been given to allowing the Orca a compression ability like it's sibling the Rorqual?

Probably, but I don't think it'll happen since that would completely ruin the reason for the Rorq's existence. Better to buff the Orca in other ways (freighter-sized ore hold w/ barge-level agility, perhaps?)

Considering the compression ability is already being mirrored via a POS array with the summer expansion, I don't see a problem. The Rorqual is not going to become useless overnight if for nothing else than it still has a much larger bonus to mining foreman links while deployed than an Orca (1.5x vs 1.15x).

My suggestion was more along the lines that some people have concerns with restricting the new compression mechanic solely to rorquals or pos modules, which excludes those newer to the industrial side of eve. Instead of it staying as so, or potentially becoming a default station service, give the Orca that ability.

Harvey James wrote:
Kellaen wrote:
Has any thought been given to allowing the Orca a compression ability like it's sibling the Rorqual?


why would they its just a industrial command ship .. so bonus to links is all it needs
Why does it have an ore bay, ship maintenance and corp hanger array then?


good question .. i was thinking the same thing ... perhaps they will remove them eventually .. but since it hasn't been rebalanced for years its function is a little muddled now..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#407 - 2014-04-11 20:10:54 UTC
Kellaen wrote:
Considering the compression ability is already being mirrored via a POS array with the summer expansion, I don't see a problem. The Rorqual is not going to become useless overnight if for nothing else than it still has a much larger bonus to mining foreman links while deployed than an Orca (1.5x vs 1.15x).

My suggestion was more along the lines that some people have concerns with restricting the new compression mechanic solely to rorquals or pos modules, which excludes those newer to the industrial side of eve. Instead of it staying as so, or potentially becoming a default station service, give the Orca that ability.

That's the problem... The Rorq is already losing its uniqueness because of POS compression, and if Orcas get it added as well, then what's the point of using the Rorq beyond off-grid foreman boost and jump drive? I haven't seen anything that says new players won't be able to use the POS mods, that'll more likely be up to individual corps and how they allocate roles.

Kellaen wrote:
Why does it have an ore bay, ship maintenance and corp hanger array then?

Because CCP realized that nobody risks Rorqs in belts, and came up with a half-baked idea for a non-capital industrial command ship.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#408 - 2014-04-11 20:55:02 UTC
orca prices are certainly too high . then i again i also think exhumers are too expensive .. cheaper mining fleets along with industrial changes would be good this summer .. perhaps give the orca a mining drone bonus so it can actually mine a bit..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#409 - 2014-04-11 21:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Vladimir Norkoff
CCP Fozzie wrote:
...partly to avoid making the Procurer and Skiff too powerful in combat. The lock time of all barges and exhumers is still obscenely good.
Yeah. Woulda been nice if you could of increased the scan res on Haulers so that they could stand a chance against a mining barge. Before these changes go thru, a combat fit hauler has a hard time against standard mining fit Proc/Skiff. After the changes, haulers will get decimated every time. Final nail in the long dead hobby of can-flipping. Such an awesome sandbox!
Potions Master
GearBunny
#410 - 2014-04-11 21:23:55 UTC
Atum wrote:
Because CCP realized that nobody risks Rorqs in belts, and came up with a half-baked idea for a non-capital industrial command ship.


The Rorqual has these bays too, and if I remember correctly, the Orca came first, didn't it? The fleet hangar is there for miners to drop their ore directly into the Rorqual/Orca bypassing can mechanics (and ore theft) while the Orca's laser range ganglink makes it easier for the fleet to sit by it while still being able to reach the rocks.

Out in Lawless space, most people park one of these two ships in their tower to put out bonuses 24/7, while using a cheap Miasmos to pick up cans in the belt. Some prefer enormous freight containers, mtu, and a guy throwing the ore into the big can for a freighter to pick up. Even if they force the links to leave the tower, that will just make the Orca/Rorqual sit near a gun cluster on the tower, hoping that no one enters system (or comes to awox them) without being noticed... Or be permanently aligned to the tower and hope there's no bubbles there... As long as it requires siege to give max boost on a rorqual, moving the links out of the tower is probably not in the ship's best interests...

As for the adjustments... You may want to go through the opening paragraphs and fix a few things Fozzie. The proc/skiff paragraph still mentions giving them both another lowslot. I thought it was pretty clear from the +30 cpu that you intended them to be used for Damage Control II's, not another MLU II. Also, have you considered giving the Retriever/Covetor more mid slots? Right now they pretty much have a choice of fitting survey scanners or a shield mod of some sort and have to rely on rigs for any kind of resist or cap stability. Would be nice to have a few more options there, or you may end up with most barge pilots picking the Procurer just to be able to choose something with flexibility...

Also, any thoughts on adding a tech 2 version of the Venture? Maybe trading it's +2 warp core strength for covops ability and a little more ore/gas hold (5.5k?) (Can call it the 'Ninja' class :P)
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#411 - 2014-04-11 21:36:03 UTC
Potions Master wrote:
The Rorqual has these bays too, and if I remember correctly, the Orca came first, didn't it? The fleet hangar is there for miners to drop their ore directly into the Rorqual/Orca bypassing can mechanics (and ore theft) while the Orca's laser range ganglink makes it easier for the fleet to sit by it while still being able to reach the rocks.
...
Also, any thoughts on adding a tech 2 version of the Venture? Maybe trading it's +2 warp core strength for covops ability and a little more ore/gas hold (5.5k?) (Can call it the 'Ninja' class :P)

Nope, Rorq came first. There's even a bit in the Orca's description about how it's an adaptation of tech originally developed for the Rorq.

The T2 Venture is an interesting thought, but let's get barges/exhumers right first.
Patrick Yaa
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#412 - 2014-04-11 21:58:24 UTC
Here's my praise:
HELL **CKING YEAH!!!!
that's a change I can live with!
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#413 - 2014-04-11 21:58:35 UTC
Atum wrote:
Potions Master wrote:
The Rorqual has these bays too, and if I remember correctly, the Orca came first, didn't it? The fleet hangar is there for miners to drop their ore directly into the Rorqual/Orca bypassing can mechanics (and ore theft) while the Orca's laser range ganglink makes it easier for the fleet to sit by it while still being able to reach the rocks.
...
Also, any thoughts on adding a tech 2 version of the Venture? Maybe trading it's +2 warp core strength for covops ability and a little more ore/gas hold (5.5k?) (Can call it the 'Ninja' class :P)

Nope, Rorq came first. There's even a bit in the Orca's description about how it's an adaptation of tech originally developed for the Rorq.

The T2 Venture is an interesting thought, but let's get barges/exhumers right first.

Too bad they won't be playing with rorq this expansion. Makes me sad
Potions Master
GearBunny
#414 - 2014-04-11 22:03:11 UTC
Okay, so the Rorqual was indeed first...

Looking at the Orca's description, I wonder what Deep Core Mining has been working on since then... :)
Kellaen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#415 - 2014-04-11 22:03:44 UTC
I almost forgot, where's the Industrial Core II at?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#416 - 2014-04-11 23:22:39 UTC
Potions Master wrote:
[Quote=Atum]Also, any thoughts on adding a tech 2 version of the Venture? Maybe trading it's +2 warp core strength for covops ability and a little more ore/gas hold (5.5k?) (Can call it the 'Ninja' class :P)
I still Prospect some news regarding a T2 Mining frigate, given the look into the Magic Crystal Ball (spells SDE).

NPE – ISD – RIP
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#417 - 2014-04-11 23:40:22 UTC
Potions Master wrote:
Looking at the Orca's description, I wonder what Deep Core Mining has been working on since then... :)

Probably trying to figure out how to mine mercoxit without spawning enviro damage ever since the skiff lost its role bonus.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#418 - 2014-04-12 00:09:15 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Any chance of including a mining drone enhancement for the skiff and procurer with the damage and HP bonus?


We considered that, but to make it balanced we'd need to nerf the strip miner yield on those ships, which isn't ideal.

I don't see that as a bad thing. It's just getting its ore yield from drones more than the single strip miner, which makes more sense in an RP kinda way at least Blink

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#419 - 2014-04-12 03:22:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
With cycle reduction bonuses instead of yield bonuses, you MUST give capacitor amount increases / recharge time reductions!

The Hulk is already marginal with Arkonor II crystals +50% capacitor need penalty. [Mercoxit II are equivalent.]

The Covetor is hopeless in this regard.
Kellaen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#420 - 2014-04-12 05:20:34 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
With cycle reduction bonuses instead of yield bonuses, you MUST give capacitor amount increases / recharge time reductions!

The Hulk is already marginal with Arkonor II crystals +50% capacitor need penalty. [Mercoxit II are equivalent.]

The Covetor is hopeless in this regard.

Mining Foreman Link - Harvester Capacitor Efficiency II