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Small AAR
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Umbod Myrr
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-04-06 05:53:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Umbod Myrr
The drop rate is not skewed towards the small BPCs. Or, if it is it isn't enough so to be noticeable. Right now I could manufacture ~50 units of the Large Ancillary Armor Repairer from the blueprints wasting space in my hangar. All of these were found through exploration with run numbers anywhere from 3 to 25. The small AAR on the other hand I have used up my BPCs to give my characters a sizeable stash for future fittings and have sold off the rest for good profits over the minerals involved.

The is nothing stopping CCP from adjusting the drop rates so that the BPCs for the Small AAR are available in slightly higher quantities and the Large less so. It's not really "content" when some of the BPCs from exploration drop so much more frequently than their demand that they are essentially worthless.

[Edit] Numbers I think could work:

Large AAR : 50% lower drop rate. There are so many dirt cheap 25/50 run BPCs available via contracts and sitting in the hangars of former explorers like myself that it would take months for the market to adjust sufficiently (aside from speculative buying) for these to become profitable.

Medium AAR : Anywhere from as is, to a 10% lower drop rate. They are already profitable but not nearly so much as the Small.

Small AAR : +60% drop rate (160% of current) The demand is high enough these would still be quite profitable.

Keep in mind that while the expendable PvP fittings will always be more desirable and the market will dictate that demand, there shouldn't be so many junk drops from the exploration minigame and the drop rate should be at least somewhat related to the usefulness and demand. Lore-wise; Why would the pirate corporations be printing so many BPCs of modules that capsuleers don't use in sufficient quantities?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#42 - 2014-04-06 07:53:43 UTC
They drop more in the lower sites which people don't do much. Don't blame CCP, blame players for not doing the lower sites. And since these lower sites tend to be done by newbies I'm perfectly ok with them earning a good buck from them.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-04-06 10:39:29 UTC
Shelom Severasse wrote:
is anyone else noticing how extremely expensive these things are getting? almost cost prohibitive.

due to the nature of eve pvp, mostly frigates are flown in low sec, so the demand for the small aar compared to the medium and large is much higher.

if you are brawling, you are more than likely active tanked (active > buffer), and with frigates, the metagame is to go in with everything o/h.

this ideology can also be applied to armor reppers; since the aar frontloads repping power it is essentially a t2 small repper that has the same* repping power as a medium t2 repper (for 8 cycles)

so basically the aar is way better than the t2 variant and should definitely be more expensive.

but 2.9m-3.3m for a FRIGATE sized module? and is yet increasing? i do not believe so. (side note: as the aar prices go up, the prices of nanite paste will go down as less people will use it so i guess thats kind of a win)

but

would it totally mess with pvp as we know it if the drop rate for the BPC for small aar's was increased? not by much, but enough so that a t1 frig with t2 fittings and aar (counting cargo so ammo and nanite) isnt a 14m kill? i mean at that point you might as well only fly AFs as 2 t1 frigs @ 14m will pay for the hull. (maybe 14m is a bit on the high end but i have a few tormentor losses that are quite painful for a t1 frig)

thoughts?


* not exactly, but close


thanks dude. i checked and turned out i had a 3 run bpc which i have now built and it is winging its way to market right now.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Saladinae
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-04-08 17:26:02 UTC
They use too much cap. In that sense, they are too expensive.

Winmatar > Everything else
adriaans
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
#45 - 2014-04-10 13:19:23 UTC
Modules being more expensive is IMO better for pvp as it actually makes it more profitable for good non blobbing players.

----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#46 - 2014-04-11 22:31:33 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
2mill is nothing on a frig. Stop complaining.

I'm pretty sure that's twice the cost of most of your corp's frigs.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-04-11 22:36:20 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
2mill is nothing on a frig. Stop complaining.

I'm pretty sure that's twice the cost of most of your corp's frigs.


And yet it adds a whopping 15% to the cost of a T2 fit frig such as an incursus. Not something to cry over.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#48 - 2014-04-12 00:31:08 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Zappity wrote:
That's a pretty useless comment - the statement is true but it doesn't necessarily mean that the current cost is 'right'. Supply is artificially regulated by the spawn rate that CCP imposes. So there is certainly room for argument that the price should be lower (increase spawn rate) to encourage frigate PvP.


About as useless as this. There is plenty of frigate PVP these days. Not everyone "needs" this module. And there is nothing wrong with having some modules that give some benefit for those willing to pay.

Sure, those are called faction modules. AAR, however, is basically a prerequisite for active armour fits. The high cost just increases the barrier to entry for no good reason other than an underestimate of popularity, or perhaps a need for a nerf.


A requirement?

Seriously?

Have people gotten this unimaginative?

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#49 - 2014-04-12 00:38:23 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Zappity wrote:
That's a pretty useless comment - the statement is true but it doesn't necessarily mean that the current cost is 'right'. Supply is artificially regulated by the spawn rate that CCP imposes. So there is certainly room for argument that the price should be lower (increase spawn rate) to encourage frigate PvP.


About as useless as this. There is plenty of frigate PVP these days. Not everyone "needs" this module. And there is nothing wrong with having some modules that give some benefit for those willing to pay.

Sure, those are called faction modules. AAR, however, is basically a prerequisite for active armour fits. The high cost just increases the barrier to entry for no good reason other than an underestimate of popularity, or perhaps a need for a nerf.


A requirement?

Seriously?

Have people gotten this unimaginative?

Maybe there are some modules I don't know about? If I want an active armour fit my current options are somewhat limited. I.e. a normal repper or the ancillary. The ancillary is usually superior due to the increased burst reps which normally make it through a typical frigate fight duration.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#50 - 2014-04-12 00:42:11 UTC
Zappity wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Zappity wrote:
That's a pretty useless comment - the statement is true but it doesn't necessarily mean that the current cost is 'right'. Supply is artificially regulated by the spawn rate that CCP imposes. So there is certainly room for argument that the price should be lower (increase spawn rate) to encourage frigate PvP.


About as useless as this. There is plenty of frigate PVP these days. Not everyone "needs" this module. And there is nothing wrong with having some modules that give some benefit for those willing to pay.

Sure, those are called faction modules. AAR, however, is basically a prerequisite for active armour fits. The high cost just increases the barrier to entry for no good reason other than an underestimate of popularity, or perhaps a need for a nerf.


A requirement?

Seriously?

Have people gotten this unimaginative?

Maybe there are some modules I don't know about? If I want an active armour fit my current options are somewhat limited. I.e. a normal repper or the ancillary. The ancillary is usually superior due to the increased burst reps which normally make it through a typical frigate fight duration.


If it's superior then you should have no issues with paying more for it.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#51 - 2014-04-12 00:48:04 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
If it's superior then you should have no issues with paying more for it.

I guess you routinely fit faction modules to your frigates? They are better, after all, so you should be fitting them all the time by your logic.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Taoist Dragon
x Never Regret x
#52 - 2014-04-12 01:07:09 UTC
IMO I don't have much of an issue paying for 2mil+ mods for my frigates. My T1 frigs are usually around 12-15mil mark fully fitted so paying just over 10% of total cost for a core module masks sense for me. Most of my fits could easily be dropped below 10mil if I went with meta 3 etc for not much loss in performance.

As well all know eve is one of diminished returns - you pay more for less of a boost as you go up in power level so seing as the SAAR reps something like 2.5x SAR then the cost seems cost to the right mark for performance. But then you factor in the cost of nanite paste and the short duration of bossted reps then the cost should come down slightly. Personally I'd like to see the cost reduce slightly but not too much as it is a very effective module.

I don't feel that it is a prerequisite module for active armour frigates. Hell a lot of my armour frig fits still use SAR2 as I want the longer repping ability of this rather than a burst rep of the SAAR. And remember most active armour fits worked fine with an OH SAR2 long before SAAR's came out. It's not like revolutionised frig active armour tanking just gave us more options to play with.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#53 - 2014-04-12 06:23:27 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
2mill is nothing on a frig. Stop complaining.

I'm pretty sure that's twice the cost of most of your corp's frigs.


And yet it adds a whopping 15% to the cost of a T2 fit frig such as an incursus. Not something to cry over.

Not my argument. I was just poking fun at how he mentions 2 million ISK is nothing on a frigate when you could buy two of their ships for that price.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-04-12 13:20:31 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Goldensaver wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
2mill is nothing on a frig. Stop complaining.

I'm pretty sure that's twice the cost of most of your corp's frigs.


And yet it adds a whopping 15% to the cost of a T2 fit frig such as an incursus. Not something to cry over.

Not my argument. I was just poking fun at how he mentions 2 million ISK is nothing on a frigate when you could buy two of their ships for that price.


You're comparing unfitted ships. The majority of the cost of a frigate isn't the hull. Now if you like to PVP in a unfitted frigate the cost might be an issue. It isn't cheap but 2 mil shouldn't hurt anyone's wallet.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#55 - 2014-04-12 20:20:31 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
2mill is nothing on a frig. Stop complaining.

I'm pretty sure that's twice the cost of most of your corp's frigs.


And yet it adds a whopping 15% to the cost of a T2 fit frig such as an incursus. Not something to cry over.

Not my argument. I was just poking fun at how he mentions 2 million ISK is nothing on a frigate when you could buy two of their ships for that price.


You're comparing unfitted ships. The majority of the cost of a frigate isn't the hull. Now if you like to PVP in a unfitted frigate the cost might be an issue. It isn't cheap but 2 mil shouldn't hurt anyone's wallet.

Can't link killmails, but I can confirm on my FW character that I have frequently killed frog ships fully fitted costing close to 1m ISK.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#56 - 2014-04-13 01:06:47 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
AFAIK, these BPC's are random drops from scan sites. The reason the small ones are expensive is most likely due to the fact alot of frigates use them and get blown up constantly. Much like the Medium Ancillary Shield booster has a nice price tag compared to the other sized ones.

You want them cheaper? Scan down some sites and build them yourself. The market has spoken.


Even if you build them yourself and get them cheaper, you're incurring an oopportunity cost of the profit you would make by selling them on the market, so they are not actually 'cheaper'.

However you make a good point, market forces in Eve are very important and though I would like cheaper SAARs, the market has spoken and I doubt CCP would interfere just to make it cheaper.


You mean like how the nestor is being powered solely by market forces and not CCP black magic? It's prrtty obvious they will only respect market rates when it is convenient to do so.

The nestor especially much be someones baby and they can't stand to see it being weighed and deemed worthleas.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-04-13 14:13:37 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:

Can't link killmails, but I can confirm on my FW character that I have frequently killed frog ships fully fitted costing close to 1m ISK.

That would be a cheap T1 fitted frigate. They're good for newer players to learn PVP basics without hurting their wallet. I know the someone is going to say the AAR isn't T2 since they don't have a T2. This is very true but it compares to T2. Maybe when they release a T2 AAR the price of the T1 version will drop.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#58 - 2014-04-14 05:48:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
IIshira wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

Can't link killmails, but I can confirm on my FW character that I have frequently killed frog ships fully fitted costing close to 1m ISK.

That would be a cheap T1 fitted frigate. They're good for newer players to learn PVP basics without hurting their wallet. I know the someone is going to say the AAR isn't T2 since they don't have a T2. This is very true but it compares to T2. Maybe when they release a T2 AAR the price of the T1 version will drop.

******* -- no. No, I understand what they were. Look, it was supposed to be a humorous quip about the tendency of the Gallente militia to use cheap T1 fitted frigates for almost everything. It's almost as if you haven't seen their Derptron doctrine. If you look up the classic Chremoas loss by DHB WildCat he lost it to an army of T1 fit Atrons. This wasn't a new thing at all, nor was it new/unskilled pilots, just so you know. Those pilots were for the most part moderately experienced pilots with pretty decent SP numbers. FW players have been resorting to cheap T1 fit ships and simply playing the numbers game to win the ISK war for a long time. If 20 1.5m ISK Derptrons throw themselves into a plex and kill 5 10m ISK destroyers, they can whelp the entire fleet and still come out ahead, and with the DPS achievable by the Derptron it's not exactly unheard of.

Edit: Admittedly, the Chremoas loss was to the Caldari side using the Derptron swarm, but it was damn near pioneered (if not invented) by X Gallentius if I remember correctly, and more than a few Gallente FCs love to use the general doctrine regardless of their actual SP.
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