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Making Suicide Ganking a little more Interesting
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2014-04-11 18:51:57 UTC
Some simple changes to make gankers have to be a little more steadfast in their pursuit of tears.

1. Alter the game mechanics that no one in an NPC corp can engage in an attack that initiates a Concord response. Of course, attacking someone who is red, or has a suspect flag, or defending oneself if engaged, is still allowed.

2. Anyone who is in a PC corp AND has ganked someone in the past 72 hours cannot jump ship immediately to another corp, or back to an NPC corp, but must wait a week, if that corp is war-decced. Basically, the ganker can't avoid retribution if someone or some group decides they want to fight back. And the corp can't be shut down.

3. If someone steals from a corp, or AWOXes, the CEO can toss them within 24 hours, regardless if the offending player docks up or not.

The one issue with this is that it creates a situation where someone could gank, drawing a war dec, and then suggestion 2 and 3 are in conflict, and the CEO is stuck with a player in their corp who intentionally drew a war dec, and the CEO no recourse.

These changes in no way limit the amount of "fun" gankers can have, as long as they stay in PC corps. But they can no longer hide in an NPC corp. You want to be a tough guy, don't hit someone and run back to momma's skirts.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2014-04-11 19:08:57 UTC
if u cant catch a ganker with a kill right, what makes u think ur going to catch him with a war dec?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2014-04-11 19:13:45 UTC
These are all tremendous nerfs, in no way make ganking more interesting, and do quite a lot to reduce the fun of it.

Nice try. Roll
stoicfaux
#4 - 2014-04-11 19:22:36 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Some simple changes to make gankers have to be a little more steadfast in their pursuit of tears.

1. Alter the game mechanics that no one in an NPC corp can engage in an attack that initiates a Concord response. Of course, attacking someone who is red, or has a suspect flag, or defending oneself if engaged, is still allowed.

Or just have them automatically kicked from the NPC corp after the gank and unable to rejoin any NPC corp for a month or longer (because NPCs have standards and don't need troublemakers.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#5 - 2014-04-11 19:24:51 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Some simple changes to make gankers have to be a little more steadfast in their pursuit of tears.

1. Alter the game mechanics that no one in an NPC corp can engage in an attack that initiates a Concord response. Of course, attacking someone who is red, or has a suspect flag, or defending oneself if engaged, is still allowed.

Or just have them automatically kicked from the NPC corp after the gank and unable to rejoin any NPC corp for a month or longer (because NPCs have standards and don't need troublemakers.)



Yeah, but what corp do they end up in then?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#6 - 2014-04-11 19:25:50 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
These are all tremendous nerfs, in no way make ganking more interesting, and do quite a lot to reduce the fun of it.

Nice try. Roll


What fun is reduced?
The gank mechanics are not altered at all.
Only the ability to do it from an NPC corp.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2014-04-11 20:06:10 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
These are all tremendous nerfs, in no way make ganking more interesting, and do quite a lot to reduce the fun of it.

Nice try. Roll


Is that so? So, by your and other contributors to this forum's double standards, PVE players who don't want to have a war dec, should not be able to leave to an NPC corp or players should be kicked out of an NPC corp after a while, but gankers and PVPers can go to NPC corps or gank out of NPC corps? Is it that what you want to imply and see as a fair and minimally balanced system?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-04-11 20:15:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
1. Alter the game mechanics that no one in an NPC corp can engage in an attack that initiates a Concord response. Of course, attacking someone who is red, or has a suspect flag, or defending oneself if engaged, is still allowed.


exactly how are NPC corp suicide gankers a problem

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Anyone who is in a PC corp AND has ganked someone in the past 72 hours cannot jump ship immediately to another corp, or back to an NPC corp, but must wait a week, if that corp is war-decced. Basically, the ganker can't avoid retribution if someone or some group decides they want to fight back. And the corp can't be shut down.


you don't need wardecs to deal with gankers, transferable kill rights exist for a reason

unless you're willing to concede that nobody should be able to leave a corp under a wardec within 72 hours of declaration

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
3. If someone steals from a corp, or AWOXes, the CEO can toss them within 24 hours, regardless if the offending player docks up or not.


how exactly will game mechanics distinguish a corp theft from an ordinary corp wallet or corp hangar transaction? enlighten us here

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2014-04-11 20:22:19 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
3. If someone steals from a corp, or AWOXes, the CEO can toss them within 24 hours, regardless if the offending player docks up or not.


how exactly will game mechanics distinguish a corp theft from an ordinary corp wallet or corp hangar transaction? enlighten us here


Where was he talking about game mechanics in this point? Unless the CEO of a PC is a game mechanic these days.

As for the rest, a kill right is a singular opportunity to kill the offender, but a wardec allows for continuous attacking of gankers in PC corps and/or interrupting their activities if you so desire. That is not possible if the offenders are in an NPC corp. He also made a distinction between normal wardec'd corps and wardec'd corps of gankers. The game is certainly able to detect if a player has attacked another player or defended her-/himself or has not attacked any player.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-04-11 20:25:01 UTC
with #3 you are literally asking CCP to remove all risk from poor recruitment practices

you have a 20 man corp with 12 dudes online and one awoxer, 11 vs 1, gee how can we possibly deal with this problem eve online is hard

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2014-04-11 20:27:59 UTC
Exactly. How do you deal with an Awoxer these days? He facilitates the gank or ganks the target himself and then stays in space, cloaked or flying around, and you cannot boot him from your own corp. Very logical. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-04-11 20:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Where was he talking about game mechanics in this point? Unless the CEO of a PC is a game mechanic these days.

As for the rest, a kill right is a singular opportunity to kill the offender, but a wardec allows for continuous attacking of gankers in PC corps and/or interrupting their activities if you so desire. That is not possible if the offenders are in an NPC corp. He also made a distinction between normal wardec'd corps and wardec'd corps of gankers. The game is certainly able to detect if a player has attacked another player or defended her-/himself or has not attacked any player.


If someone steals from a corp, or AWOXes, the CEO can toss them within 24 hours, regardless if the offending player docks up or not.

he is asking for an exception to be made to the restriction against kicking corp members with roles and corp members who are undocked, if they have stolen from the corp or awoxed

and yes a kill right is a single opportunity to kill the offender but, guess what, somebody who makes a career out of suicide ganking is going to have a lot of victims with kill rights on them that they can sell

you're also forgetting that anybody with a sec status below -5 can be shot at by anyone, and even if they're not -5 their activities can be interrupted once they start shooting because of the GCC

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-04-11 20:31:08 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Exactly. How do you deal with an Awoxer these days? He facilitates the gank or ganks the target himself and then stays in space, cloaked or flying around, and you cannot boot him from your own corp. Very logical. Roll


it's almost as if you can bait them and kill them

scary awoxer how do we deal with this guy eve online is hard

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#14 - 2014-04-11 20:33:24 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
with #3 you are literally asking CCP to remove all risk from poor recruitment practices

you have a 20 man corp with 12 dudes online and one awoxer, 11 vs 1, gee how can we possibly deal with this problem eve online is hard


What Rivr said in his post above is the crux of it. If a real-life company has an employee go rogue, or stops showing up for work, they don't need to have a one on one conversation to fire them. They can mail the guy papers. Same concept as firing someone from a corp in Eve. They don't have to be docked to send them email.

But yeah, I would say that dealing with AWOX'ers is a separate issue from gankers in NPC corps, and I can concede that #3 could be in a separate thread.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#15 - 2014-04-11 20:34:37 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Some simple changes to make gankers have to be a little more steadfast in their pursuit of tears.

1. Alter the game mechanics that no one in an NPC corp can engage in an attack that initiates a Concord response. Of course, attacking someone who is red, or has a suspect flag, or defending oneself if engaged, is still allowed.

Or just have them automatically kicked from the NPC corp after the gank and unable to rejoin any NPC corp for a month or longer (because NPCs have standards and don't need troublemakers.)



Yeah, but what corp do they end up in then?


they end up corp less, and can be decced for a fraction of the usual fee?

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-04-11 20:38:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
What Rivr said in his post above is the crux of it. If a real-life company has an employee go rogue, or stops showing up for work, they don't need to have a one on one conversation to fire them. They can mail the guy papers. Same concept as firing someone from a corp in Eve. They don't have to be docked to send them email.

But yeah, I would say that dealing with AWOX'ers is a separate issue from gankers in NPC corps, and I can concede that #3 could be in a separate thread.


the stupid undesirable consequence of your idea is that you'd create a whole new way to grief people: inviting somebody into your corp, inviting them to test the DPS of their navy raven on your drake, and then kicking them just before they start shooting so they get blown up by concord and you can freely loot the wreck without getting suspect flagged

then more wretched hiseccers will demand nerfs to that activity on GD

you also remove a viable means of getting retribution against bad or dishonest corp leaders because you're apparently blinded by some polar GRIEFER BAD CAREBEAR GOOD morality

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2014-04-11 20:44:15 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
What Rivr said in his post above is the crux of it. If a real-life company has an employee go rogue, or stops showing up for work, they don't need to have a one on one conversation to fire them. They can mail the guy papers. Same concept as firing someone from a corp in Eve. They don't have to be docked to send them email.

But yeah, I would say that dealing with AWOX'ers is a separate issue from gankers in NPC corps, and I can concede that #3 could be in a separate thread.


the stupid undesirable consequence of your idea is that you'd create a whole new way to grief people: inviting somebody into your corp, inviting them to test the DPS of their navy raven on your drake, and then kicking them just before they start shooting so they get blown up by concord and you can freely loot the wreck without getting suspect flagged.


Carebears have their Sec Settings max on Yellow, so as soon as they were kicked from the corp, they wouldn't be able to shoot. If they don't have the settings setup this way or ignore the notification or mail, it's their own fault.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-04-11 20:44:29 UTC
Would it be a bad idea to boot people from NPC corps past a certain age and force them to either join a proper corp or be in their race's FW standard corp ?

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-04-11 20:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Carebears have their Sec Settings max on Yellow, so as soon as they were kicked from the corp, they wouldn't be able to shoot. If they don't have the settings setup this way or ignore the notification or mail, it's their own fault.


it doesn't matter because this also means that you can kick somebody just before they get engaged by wartargets

there are so many undesirable and stupid consequences resulting from allowing somebody to be kicked when they're still in space

and oh lawdy you think it's hard to convince people to set safeties to red when the goonwaffe recruitment scam has worked for almost a decade

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2014-04-11 20:46:55 UTC
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:
Would it be a bad idea to boot people from NPC corps past a certain age and force them to either join a proper corp or be in their race's FW standard corp ?


Yes.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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