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EVE: the Game you Wait to Play

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#661 - 2014-04-11 19:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
And you wonder why I read your posts.
Is it so that you can admire the size of his ego? If it gets any bigger he's going to have to give it its own alt.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#662 - 2014-04-11 19:35:11 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:


I can continue to run level 2 missions but my forward progress is still restricted by time. Level 3 is the next target and no amount of level 2 completed missions will allow me to run a level 3 before i can sit in that battle cruiser. I could try in a cruiser but i would no doubt fail spectacularly especially emphasized by my lack of support/weapon skills to make up for my lower ship class. Level 2s will also never teach me about the triggers in l3 missions or the tank capabilities of the battle cruiser i will be flying to complete them.

Dude, didn't you hear? You can run those level 3 missions in a T1 frig! You don't have to wait for a bigger, better ship! That's an illusion. Just give yourself a little shot of testosterone, loop the tops of your tightie-whities around your ears, don your Neo sunglasses and barrel on in with guns blazing! If you can't do that and wipe 30 to 40 rats without your shields dropping past 95%, you're doing it wrong. Or you're not EVE material. Or both.

{blink blink}


Assault Frigates can make mincemeat of level 3's. They do take a bit of training time, but you could have a close to maxed out AF pilot in about the same time as a somewhat competent BC pilot.

I have to say, while there is a grain of truth in your OP, once you get past about a year (less for some people) SP really stop mattering so much. (Alt of a 2 year player.)

There does seem a point at about 2-4 months old that I do recall quite well, where everything seems to take forever. The question is whether you bang your head against the wall, or spend the time actually going out and experiencing many of the parts of EVE you haven't looked at yet.

For me, I spent some time in wormholes, completed a few personal goals of mine, took a tour of low-sec & next thing I knew I was a year old, flying a almost perfectly skilled Legion, and SP didn't matter much anymore.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#663 - 2014-04-11 19:35:13 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Yea I'm trying to dumb myself down to your level but it's hard with all this brain getting in the way&


I think that did it.

you are being insulting, please stop


Sure, we'll both stop insulting each other.

Take care and best of luck.
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#664 - 2014-04-11 19:37:53 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Brusanan wrote:
I can't tell if OP is a troll or if he just doesn't understand Eve.

The Eve skilling system is progressive. You're supposed to fly frigs, then destroyers, then cruisers, then battlecruisers and then battleships. Literally the only way to have to wait weeks and weeks for one ship is if he's aiming for a T2 BS or Capital, or if he's trying to skip destroyers, cruisers and battlecruisers for one race and immediately hop into a BS.

Judging from his OP, where he claims he trained weeks and weeks for the ship, and then when he got it he had to train weeks and weeks for a mod, I am assuming he saw the new Marauder changes and decided he had to have a Marauder a few months into the game. Then after he got it, he realized he had to train for a Bastion module before he could see the ship transform.

When you are training a ship, you should ALREADY KNOW how you are going to fit it, and you should already be taking the training time for those modules into account. If you were waiting weeks and weeks for a ship, then you had plenty of time to take a few minutes to actually learn something about the ship you are training for.

Either way, if you progress properly, by he time you are ready to get into a Marauder you should already have most of the prerequisites. If you do it properly, you are never waiting weeks and weeks for any ship short of a capital ship. And again, if you do it properly, you are not "waiting", because you are still having fun with the ships you CAN fly while waiting for the skills to fly your next ship.

Seriously, his complaint is on par with whining because you can't play the last level of a game before you complete the levels before it.

Nothing in your post indicates you understand the point of the thread.

Seeing as to how there isn't one, I'm starting to doubt your abitlity to think in a logical, linear way. Your answers and your glorious OP are full of rubish that jumps all over the place and fails to adress anything at all.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#665 - 2014-04-11 19:38:04 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its nothing but rubbish though.

Then it is worth no less than what you have contributed to this thread, including your latest quip.


Allow me to add a fact then.

We take on people 1 minute into playing EVE and after 30 min they have the SP to take part in near all of our activities including the big capital fights. This talk of having to wait several months before you can play EVE is nothing but rubbish spouted by bad players.
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#666 - 2014-04-11 19:39:49 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Assault Frigates can make mincemeat of level 3's. They do take a bit of training time, but you could have a close to maxed out AF pilot in about the same time as a somewhat competent BC pilot.

I have to say, while there is a grain of truth in your OP, once you get past about a year (less for some people) SP really stop mattering so much. (Alt of a 2 year player.)

There does seem a point at about 2-4 months old that I do recall quite well, where everything seems to take forever. The question is whether you bang your head against the wall, or spend the time actually going out and experiencing many of the parts of EVE you haven't looked at yet.

For me, I spent some time in wormholes, completed a few personal goals of mine, took a tour of low-sec & next thing I knew I was a year old, flying a almost perfectly skilled Legion, and SP didn't matter much anymore.

Thanks for your post. While you only saw a grain of truth in the OP your personal experience certainly supports it. Where you and I diverge is in how we each choose to deal with the obvious "skills void" you mentioned (to say nothing of the fact that, for you, it was a whole year before your skills training was a thing of the past).

Good post.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#667 - 2014-04-11 19:40:19 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
And you wonder why I read your posts.
Is it so that you can admire the size of his ego? If it gets any bigger he's going to have to give it its own alt

It's like the Jeremy Kyle show...in general discussion.
If he gets an alt I give it an hour before it decided it was too good for him, ganks him and steals all his stuff and breaks for providence.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#668 - 2014-04-11 19:41:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its nothing but rubbish though.

Then it is worth no less than what you have contributed to this thread, including your latest quip.


Allow me to add a fact then.

We take on people 1 minute into playing EVE and after 30 min they have the SP to take part in near all of our activities including the big capital fights. This talk of having to wait several months before you can play EVE is nothing but rubbish spouted by bad players.

Bad players? Or players who prefer to do something other than what you just described?

Your latest is yet another judgmental, worthless post... to be added to the dung heap of similarly judgmental, worthless posts in this thread.
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#669 - 2014-04-11 19:44:07 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:
Seeing as to how there isn't one, I'm starting to doubt your abitlity to think in a logical, linear way. Your answers and your glorious OP are full of rubish that jumps all over the place and fails to adress anything at all.

Those who cannot think logically are usually the first to accuse those who can of being unable to do so. Unfortunately, as in your case, they cannot be made, under any circumstances, to see beyond their irrationality.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#670 - 2014-04-11 19:48:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
I can continue to run level 2 missions but my forward progress is still restricted by time. Level 3 is the next target and no amount of level 2 completed missions will allow me to run a level 3 before i can sit in that battle cruiser. I could try in a cruiser but i would no doubt fail spectacularly especially emphasized by my lack of support/weapon skills to make up for my lower ship class. Level 2s will also never teach me about the triggers in l3 missions or the tank capabilities of the battle cruiser i will be flying to complete them.

Your forward progress will in large part be paid off ahead of time since you're gaining a sense of what difference each step along the way makes. And as others have mentioned, you can run L3s without the BC just fine — it may cost you more money to do so, but the L2s you have run and are running will help you with that bit. Your lower ship class is generally better made up for by flying than by fits and equipment — it's part of what lets you take seemingly weak cruiser-sized ships into L4s and L5s and spank them silly (the missions that is, not the ships). You will learn about the L3 triggers in the same place you learn about the L2s: on eve-survival, so your L2s have already given you the knowledge URL you need.

Basically, instead of learning everything you need to know about L3s after you've gained access to L3s, you can learn it long before that point. Thus, your progress is greatly quickened. And we'll set aside that the time difference in opening up an L3-capable BC compared to an L2-capbable cruiser is measured in hours… after all, you submitted that it was a slightly contrived example from the outset.


Maybe, but as a noob it sure doesn't feel like running the same level 2s over and over is teaching you anything. It feels like you're just killing time until you can fly the next ship to advance. Also, when there is no objective like isk or standings to collect because the payouts are just so low it is down right boring and seems like a waste of time.

I just sympathies with the op because i had the same issue when i started and as mentioned afk'd for the first couple months. I wanted to play but everything i could do seemed why bother and what i wanted to do seemed out of reach by months of training time. I stuck with it and realized eve is probably the deepest and most intelligently designed game ever.

These aren't opinions these are facts that op, myself and thousands of others have felt. It is definitely something that should be looked at and discussed. OP shouldn't be attacked for feeling the way he does.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#671 - 2014-04-11 19:49:02 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Bad players? Or players who prefer to do something other than what you just described?
Nah. Just bad players. Or, to be a bit more kind, players who are bad at figuring out ways to wreak havoc with what they've got.

Either way, you still don't have to wait several months to play the game or to try anything out.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#672 - 2014-04-11 19:49:23 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its nothing but rubbish though.

Then it is worth no less than what you have contributed to this thread, including your latest quip.


Allow me to add a fact then.

We take on people 1 minute into playing EVE and after 30 min they have the SP to take part in near all of our activities including the big capital fights. This talk of having to wait several months before you can play EVE is nothing but rubbish spouted by bad players.

Bad players? Or players who prefer to do something other than what you just described?

Your latest is yet another judgmental, worthless post... to be added to the dung heap of similarly judgmental, worthless posts in this thread.


You do see where he says 'near all our activities' if the corp is in 0.0 this includes and is not limited to:

mining
pvp
pve
exploration
manufacturing
sov war fare
spying
etc.

you are once again failing to realize that there is a crap load of stuff you can do, while you are waititng for your huge goal to finish, that are just as enjoyable as your goal. Maybe I should ask, what exactly are you training for that you are complaing about the time its taking to get there?

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#673 - 2014-04-11 19:49:57 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
But my OP was not a trash post. It expressed a negative opinion, but it was grounded in personal experience and fact. And it closed with a clear disclosure of why it had been written. And it acknowledged that it was personal choice that I was leaving. Go look. What followed my OP was the trash.


This is what I'm talking about. You don't even acknowledge that what you posted was insulting trash of a very butthurt variety, this the response you are getting. This is a big part of your problem, you don't understand who people of a different point of view will take what you say, so you say something crazy than react like other people are crazy lol.

Quote:

Freak. One second you're rational and the next you're just like these other jackasses who can't open their mouths without thrusting assumptions onto other people.


You started the ball rolling with a trashy post. You could have posted a more mature post detailing your grievances (not that it would change the core of the issue, which if your poor choice of video game to play) At the end of the day it doesn't really seem like you have a sense of personal responsibility and that lack has led you to start this monstrously bad conversation.

I say again, you should try to look inward to see where the problem originate. That's hard to do but it's what grown folks do when they want to get better at things.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#674 - 2014-04-11 19:51:37 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its nothing but rubbish though.

Then it is worth no less than what you have contributed to this thread, including your latest quip.


Allow me to add a fact then.

We take on people 1 minute into playing EVE and after 30 min they have the SP to take part in near all of our activities including the big capital fights. This talk of having to wait several months before you can play EVE is nothing but rubbish spouted by bad players.

Bad players? Or players who prefer to do something other than what you just described?

Your latest is yet another judgmental, worthless post... to be added to the dung heap of similarly judgmental, worthless posts in this thread.


So you decided that rather than do something you will wait several months to get the perfectly skilled heavy dictor.

meanwhile our newbee in a t1 fast frig is tackling a dreadnought for a fleet and gets showered with isk by a happy mr Vee and a whole fleet of greatfull pilots from EG.

yes, you are a bad player making terrible choices to restrict yourself.
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#675 - 2014-04-11 19:52:06 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Brusanan wrote:
I can't tell if OP is a troll or if he just doesn't understand Eve.

The Eve skilling system is progressive. You're supposed to fly frigs, then destroyers, then cruisers, then battlecruisers and then battleships. Literally the only way to have to wait weeks and weeks for one ship is if he's aiming for a T2 BS or Capital, or if he's trying to skip destroyers, cruisers and battlecruisers for one race and immediately hop into a BS.

Judging from his OP, where he claims he trained weeks and weeks for the ship, and then when he got it he had to train weeks and weeks for a mod, I am assuming he saw the new Marauder changes and decided he had to have a Marauder a few months into the game. Then after he got it, he realized he had to train for a Bastion module before he could see the ship transform.

When you are training a ship, you should ALREADY KNOW how you are going to fit it, and you should already be taking the training time for those modules into account. If you were waiting weeks and weeks for a ship, then you had plenty of time to take a few minutes to actually learn something about the ship you are training for.

Either way, if you progress properly, by he time you are ready to get into a Marauder you should already have most of the prerequisites. If you do it properly, you are never waiting weeks and weeks for any ship short of a capital ship. And again, if you do it properly, you are not "waiting", because you are still having fun with the ships you CAN fly while waiting for the skills to fly your next ship.

Seriously, his complaint is on par with whining because you can't play the last level of a game before you complete the levels before it.

Nothing in your post indicates you understand the point of the thread.

Your point is irrelevant. "I should be able to grind for XP" has been suggested hundreds and hundreds of times. It will absolutely never, ever happen, and it never should.

Instead I explained why your entire perspective of Eve, which is the cause of your problems and the premise that you built your suggestion on, is wrong. If you didn't want the "I waited weeks and weeks for a ship, then got it and discovered that I had to wait weeks and weeks for a module" issue addressed, you should have left it out of your OP.

Another point that should be addressed is that the most valuable resource in Eve is knowledge and experience (not the in-game kind). That is what you gain by playing the game. Skill points and ISK get you nowhere in Eve. Knowing how to play the game is what separates veterans from rookies.

The game will never be changed to accommodate you, for the same reason it won't be changed to accommodate the other thousand whiners we have on the forums every day. Your effort here is wasted. Instead of whining that Eve should be the game you picture in your head, adapt yourself and your play style to the game it actually is.
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#676 - 2014-04-11 19:53:39 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its nothing but rubbish though.

Then it is worth no less than what you have contributed to this thread, including your latest quip.


Allow me to add a fact then.

We take on people 1 minute into playing EVE and after 30 min they have the SP to take part in near all of our activities including the big capital fights. This talk of having to wait several months before you can play EVE is nothing but rubbish spouted by bad players.

Bad players? Or players who prefer to do something other than what you just described?

Your latest is yet another judgmental, worthless post... to be added to the dung heap of similarly judgmental, worthless posts in this thread.

Once again, "But why can't I fly a Titan RIGHT NOW?" or "Why can't I play the last level first?".
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#677 - 2014-04-11 19:53:49 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:


Tip: Don't quit your day job for a career in gambling.


Oh, how cute, he is trying to troll me. Lol.

Roll

Luckily, I have not an introduced a thread (to general discussion, of all places) talking about a time issue with the skill queue, and how it purportedly is somehow connected to individual "fun."

You simply ignited something literally every EvE player deals with. Imagination is called the solution.

The problem is you are simply too prideful, not willing to listen to reason, or, dare I say it, just plain dumb.

Two weeks into game I had my first heist. 4b haul (not much for today, but for a newbie 3-4 years ago....Shocked.)

Know what I had?

A ****-fit drake, a handful of meta fit Merlins, a Blaster Ferox, and a chance encounter by an awoxer that caused just enough of a divide to let myself and my director buddy at the time, act like Moses, parting the Red Sea, leading the other newbros and other victims of our CEO's stupidity, to safety.

And the revenge war-dec? Same ships as above. I lost them, but so what? EvE is a game about shooting and losing spaceships.

You tell me not to gamble, but yourself, as a person who thought it prudent to post your personal inadequacies in the shark tank that is general discussion, should re-evaluate your advice.

I mean, honestly, what do you think would happen when you posted this?

That CCP would run to your aid and solve your problems for you? Protip: Have a CSM member strong arm the company. It is what usually works best.

Did you think that everyone would cuddle you up, and tell you, "Shhh, it'll be okay, we understand," because for some reason you cannot up-end the box of Lego's and simply have fun?

Is EvE so different?

Is it not created of building blocks and imagination?

Anything else, especially the closing line of your OP, and your inability to actually listen and engage in meaningful debate (especially when numerous people have addressed your issue of "pilot progression" and it's relation to fun/hr) one can only deduce that the thread is your way of trying to dissuade any other newbros from joining the game, in which CCP should lock the thread, due to your base analysis of the game.

So go play a generic FPS. I am sure that the player progression will suit you there.

Alternatively, you can pop in something like Skyrim. Since progression is such a worry to you, make sure the game is vanilla (no patches), and use the Oghma Infinium glitch to 100 all of your skill. Patch the game, then build up your enchanting quick, make a -100% mana cost Alteration armor set, and paralyze people until you can get mass paralysis on the char. Then you can mass paralyze your way to the top of the food chain.

Sorry EvE didn't work out the same way for you. Some people simply lack imagination. vOv

Big smileRollPirate

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#678 - 2014-04-11 19:55:28 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
I can continue to run level 2 missions but my forward progress is still restricted by time. Level 3 is the next target and no amount of level 2 completed missions will allow me to run a level 3 before i can sit in that battle cruiser. I could try in a cruiser but i would no doubt fail spectacularly especially emphasized by my lack of support/weapon skills to make up for my lower ship class. Level 2s will also never teach me about the triggers in l3 missions or the tank capabilities of the battle cruiser i will be flying to complete them.

Your forward progress will in large part be paid off ahead of time since you're gaining a sense of what difference each step along the way makes. And as others have mentioned, you can run L3s without the BC just fine — it may cost you more money to do so, but the L2s you have run and are running will help you with that bit. Your lower ship class is generally better made up for by flying than by fits and equipment — it's part of what lets you take seemingly weak cruiser-sized ships into L4s and L5s and spank them silly (the missions that is, not the ships). You will learn about the L3 triggers in the same place you learn about the L2s: on eve-survival, so your L2s have already given you the knowledge URL you need.

Basically, instead of learning everything you need to know about L3s after you've gained access to L3s, you can learn it long before that point. Thus, your progress is greatly quickened. And we'll set aside that the time difference in opening up an L3-capable BC compared to an L2-capbable cruiser is measured in hours… after all, you submitted that it was a slightly contrived example from the outset.


Maybe, but as a noob it sure doesn't feel like running the same level 2s over and over is teaching you anything. It feels like you're just killing time until you can fly the next ship to advance. Also, when there is no objective like isk or standings to collect because the payouts are just so low it is down right boring and seems like a waste of time.

I just sympathies with the op because i had the same issue when i started and as mentioned afk'd for the first couple months. I wanted to play but everything i could do seemed why bother and what i wanted to do seemed out of reach by months of training time. I stuck with it and realized eve is probably the deepest and most intelligently designed game ever.

These aren't opinions these are facts that op, myself and thousands of others have felt. It is definitely something that should be looked at and discussed. OP shouldn't be attacked for feeling the way he does.



The op is not being attacked, as I have skimmed this thread I have seen tons of ansers to the question as to why this is not broken and not a big deal. The op and it seems you as well are cleary not listening. This game is not WoW like (and I only use WoW as its still the biggest mmo out there) You don't have to run the same lvl 2 over and over if you don't want too. You think that's boring? then try mining, exploring, pvping, pirating, manucaturing, start a corp, join and corp and see fi they will let you recruit, set up your own pos, fly around and see the sites. The issue again, is not eve, its your mentality. You have to grasp the concept of finding your own fun. I stoped missioning after a month, and I grinded to lvl 4's and went 'yea this sucks i'm done' and moved on. I have known others who did nothing but missions for 4 years. The point is, find what you enjoy doing. if there is nothing you enjoy doing then eve is not for you. its really that simple.

Te 'sp gap' doenslt need to change. You do. I can right now, make an alt and do pretty much whatever you are training for. Now ofc I can't do cap ships, but cap ships are useless without friends. But whatever activity you are training for, I can do in a few days.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#679 - 2014-04-11 19:55:39 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:

Maybe, but as a noob it sure doesn't feel like running the same level 2s over and over is teaching you anything. It feels like you're just killing time until you can fly the next ship to advance. Also, when there is no objective like isk or standings to collect because the payouts are just so low it is down right boring and seems like a waste of time.

I just sympathies with the op because i had the same issue when i started and as mentioned afk'd for the first couple months. I wanted to play but everything i could do seemed why bother and what i wanted to do seemed out of reach by months of training time. I stuck with it and realized eve is probably the deepest and most intelligently designed game ever.

These aren't opinions these are facts that op, myself and thousands of others have felt. It is definitely something that should be looked at and discussed. OP shouldn't be attacked for feeling the way he does.
No they are not facts, calling them that doesn't make it so. It is your opinion.

If it were fact then the tens of thousands of players that have gone before you would also have felt the same, unfortunately for your facts a lot of them didn't and are still playing X years later, and telling you that your opinion is not fact.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#680 - 2014-04-11 19:59:25 UTC
EvE for a new player is alot like Friday. We noobs wonder "which seat can I take?"

There's only a handful of answers.

Tackle frigate
Hauler
Venture mining peanuts
Frigate PvE for peanuts
Exploration which in hi-sec results in peanuts, low sec results in a 3 million isk ship loss that would take 20 hours of hi sec exploration to compensate

and

uhhhh

hoping to find a veteran rich enough to allow you to salvage his loot for him, meaning your entire money making opportunities only exist when other people are online meaning you're nowhere near self-sufficient.

Isk makes the game go round, and this is even more true for new people.

New people can't make alot of isk without the skill points needed to give them the ships/tank/dps to kill the harder things fast.
Or without alot of isk to "risk" losing it all on hauling goods.

Self-sufficiency is a big deal for some people. Begging sucks. Asking for loans sucks.

Really the only reason I had whatever success I had was because I was streaming EvE on twitch for a bit and was given a bunch of free mils by dudes who were enjoying watching a noob flounder around, invisibly bumping him off of asteroids he was mining. Seriously man for days I had no idea wtf was wrong with my game.