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EVE: the Game you Wait to Play

First post
Author
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#521 - 2014-04-11 16:59:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Koz Katral wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


Of course you're lying. Because you're stating as a fact what you cannot possibly know to be true.


But I do know it to be true. your posts suggest and demonstrate that you are not suited to EVE Online (like the OP). The evidence of this is your own posting: you struggle with things that the rest of us dealt with easily years ago before CCP implemented this overly generous (and misleading) new player experience.
.



That's a nice opinion dear, you should probably look up what the definition of one is.


ok, say that again, in English this time lol.



I don't have time to teach you how to read I'm afraid.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#522 - 2014-04-11 16:59:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Divine Entervention wrote:
If you wish to start one with me
…you mean like I just did? I'm still waiting for you to support your claims, and until you do, you're just continuing your tradition of lying through your teeth.

Quote:
Until then, if you're not going to show the courtesy of reading what it is I was talking about before jumping into the middle of it saying that I'm wrong, demanding I paraphrase it for your convenience, you're no one I need to explain myself to.

Good thing, then, that I didn't say that you were wrong. I simply asked you to clarify your assertions. It was your inability to do so that led to the conclusion that you were wrong as usual, but that was at the end of the process, not in the middle of it.

Quote:
Who says I'm struggling?
You are, with claims such as “Playing EvE as a new person is like standing in 3 inches of water being told you should enjoy your swim” and “being a new player sucks” and “the "real game" of eve, while interesting in the same way a car accident on the high way is interesting, is still not very compelling”.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#523 - 2014-04-11 17:03:36 UTC
This would be the last game I'd bring someone new into.

Reasons? It's all been said b4.
Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#524 - 2014-04-11 17:04:16 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Koz Katral wrote:
What Karak is getting at is that Jenna doesn't appear to be one of these people as he keeps resorting to "lol u dumb, me not" as a legitimate response.
Considering the content of Karaks' posts, you're dumb is a fairly legitimate response. Jenn is posting with the advantage of actually having a clue, unlike Karak.

Many posters agree with me. Do they also not have a clue? If so, upon what basis do you make this claim? That you agree with those who disagree?
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#525 - 2014-04-11 17:04:27 UTC
Hey guys, this is the best stealth isk-for-sp thread ever. That is the solution the OP has been gunning for from the start, but has been to shy to put into words.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

Hal Safon
Filthy Peasants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#526 - 2014-04-11 17:04:31 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Hal Safon wrote:

If you want to advance more quickly.... Find a way to lie, cheat, and steal enough ISK to buy a combat ready character. The purchase of characters is fully supported by CCP. I know people who have done this and within 6 months of starting the game had 50 million SP characters.

In general though, EVE is for the planner, the schemer, and is intended to be long term investment. It is obviously not for all people and that is probably the reason EVE had an average player age much higher than virtually any other MMO.

Sorry it didn't work out for you.

Also, I should point out that I have many many millions of SP but spend at least 50% of my time in frigates that a new player can fly perfectly inside of 6 months. A massive amount of SP is not needed to effective in EVE, but planning, strategy, and teamwork usually are.
Thanks for your post. Could you link or describe the typical fit on the T1 frigates you fly? Thanks.


Either a merlin or incursus would be my recommendation.

Merlin is great because it is cheap, tanky, and relatively quick. M typical fit is something like,

3 blasters (neutrons if u can fit)

MSE, web, scram, microwarp

DC, magnetic field stab, micro aux power core.

Not particularly hard to fit, and can be made quite cheaply by substituting meta modules for tech II. Fit some of these, grab 1-3 friends, and you have a decent little gang that can take on other frigs, dessies, and the occasional lonely cruiser.

I probably have over 1 billion of kills in a merlin/incursus in the last month.
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#527 - 2014-04-11 17:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
To put my 2 cents, I'm a fairly newbie in this game (since Dec 2013) and you don't have to wait passively to play the game.
Yes skill learning takes time, and you certainly do things in game in a less effective manner than veterans, but you can begin to play from the start.

Like Hal Safon said to you, you can begin to use T1 frigates and destroyers and have fun with them, and you can basically try a lot of stuff: missions, PVP (solo, small gang, fleet), Mining, Industry, PI, scamming and so on. Yes, it will be less efficient but will stay fun to do.

There is another range of skills to learn, yours as a player; because there are good and bad ways to do things in the game, which of course the tutorials doesn't explain to you but are also fun to discover even if it means to lost a ship or two.

Eve doesn't excuse any errors, but in this case it isn't different than a combat flight sim when you pass so much hours to plan your flight and all that to be shooted by a SAM because you forgot to enable your ECMs before to take off.

NB: for the list of frigates press ALT + 1 to display ISIS with all the diagrams of the different spacecrafts.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#528 - 2014-04-11 17:05:16 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
This would be the last game I'd bring someone new into.

Reasons? It's all been said b4.

Someone yes, I can think of a couple of people that would thrive here though.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#529 - 2014-04-11 17:05:31 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:


Who says I'm struggling?


For the most part, you are. You've made post after post about the new player experience and how you think it should be different (ie how it should be better for you). Most of the rest of us never saw a need to do that, we got through it just fine, some of us didn't even do the tutorials at all.

Your support for the OP is another indicator. The OP thinks that EVE (a game that has survived in more or less it's current form for 10 years) should act like other games (most of which have died in less than 10 years) because he wants his skills to increase as he uses them, among other things. This suggests a person who wants instant gratification and wanting that means that the poster is probably unsuited to the long term investment/relatively slow moving ways of EVE Online.

There are a lot of such misfits in other games I play, like the notorious "I demand Infantry" guys in World of Tanks when soooo many other 'infantry' games exist, or the "this game should have non consensual pvp" fringe crown in Star Trek Online. At the end of the day, these misfits are the types of people who think the world should revolve around their individual wants and needs, and they take the fact that is doesn't as evidence of "something is wrong".

That's the vibe i get from you from your posts. If you don't want me and people like me to get that vibe, don't post in a way that suggests it.
Shrewd Tsero
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#530 - 2014-04-11 17:06:21 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
I'll say it again (and as yet, no one dared pick up the baton on it)...no player who has the option to engage in activities that will directly influence his ability to acquire the skills, ships, and mods of his choice will ever spend a fraction of a second doing anything else on your "things you can do instead" lists.


I'll take a stab at this one. I come from a fairly standard MMO background. No, I never played WoW, but I've played games with similar mechanics. For those of you that are outraged by the OP, he's not wrong in one sense. For the specific thing that you want to do eventually, the ship you want to fly, the profession you want to excel in, etc. you do have to wait. Yes, there are other things you can do, or you can do the thing you're eventually shooting for, just very poorly, but in the end you are waiting. There is nothing you can do to advance that specific agenda any faster. Don't get upset, I'm not done. Just acknowledge that that part is true. For instance, I am currently training to fly a specific ship. I cannot fly that specific ship at all right now. To fly that ship, I need to wait weeks just to be able to sit in the cockpit. There is very little I can do to make that specific result happen sooner. Yes I know, remaps, etc. etc. Don't get bogged down in the details.

Here's where I think the OP misses the point in all of this though. The connotation is that because I cannot make the ticks faster on that training queue, that nothing I do in game is advancing my agenda. This is where the error lies. The parallel for me is the standard leveling system that exists in most MMOs. Go,do this thing and earn XP. Come back to me and get a new thing to do, go do that and earn XP. And then when you cap, go do this thing over and over to acquire goods or the currency to buy them to make doing that thing easier. The appearance then is that this is all contributing to your overall goal in a very tangible way. I do this many things and I can get to the first stage of where I want to be. I do so many more things and I'll get to the next step.

What the OP needs to do is to shift their paradigm from this mentality and realize that having the skills to do something is not equal to being able to do that thing well. It would be the same as a person in a different MMO being given a max level character with tens or dozens of skills. They wouldn't know what to do with them all. They absolutely could learn, but the whole point of the questing system in most MMOs is to give you an opportunity to learn your class as you go. Each skill or skills is added at appropriately spaced intervals, with enough time in-between for you to master or at least get comfortable with it.

While most people here were talking about all the things that you can do, completely unrelated to the OPs specific agenda, I'm going to say that there are things that can be done, actually that need to be done, before your skill queue finishes that are directly related to your objective. While I don't know what that is, specifically, I can tell you that from day one you can pilot a ship that is similar, albeit far less powerful, than pretty much any ship in the game. Learning to pilot those well is essential to success in the long run. Whether it's PvP or PvE, if you can fly your frigate effectively, you will be much better at flying a battleship. In a game where death means you need to buy back everything you had equipped, that is definitely advancing your agenda.

And then there's the ISK issue. Someone along the lines in here equated it to XP and that's not a bad analogy. The fact is, that you're going to need funds to do whatever that thing is that you're doing. Going out and earning ISK is advancing your specific agenda (and it's also hopefully helping you learn the skills you need in the long run).

TL;DR version: Stop thinking that the skill queue is the only way you directly impact your chosen agenda and realize that you should be doing the thing that you want to eventually do, but in whatever version is appropriate for your "level". This is true for virtually any game. As a level 10 character in another MMO, even though my chosen agenda is end game raiding, I would be doing the things that are appropriate for my level. EvE is no different in this respect.

It is good to have substance to one's existence.  But in the absence of substance, one can do much yet with style.

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#531 - 2014-04-11 17:06:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
If you wish to start one with me
…you mean like I just did? I'm still waiting for you to support your claims, and until you do, you're just continuing your tradition of lying through your teeth.

Quote:
Until then, if you're not going to show the courtesy of reading what it is I was talking about before jumping into the middle of it saying that I'm wrong, demanding I paraphrase it for your convenience, you're no one I need to explain myself to.

Good thing, then, that I didn't say that you were wrong. I simply asked you to clarify your assertions. It was your inability to do so that led to the conclusion that you were wrong as usual, but that was at the end of the process, not in the middle of it.


You either read what i typed to Jenna Side and begin questioning it, which might result in a legitimate answer, or you can make your demands without doing so and continue to not get what you want.

To me this seems like more justification to not take what your little clique bandies about as facts and truth. Because without having read what's taken place, you're more than willing to push forward what you believe to be fact, that which you cannot possibly know to be so.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#532 - 2014-04-11 17:08:19 UTC
Karl Jerr wrote:
To put my 2 cents, I'm a fairly newbie in this game (since Dec 2013) and you don't have to wait passively to play the game.
Yes skill learning takes time, and you certainly do things in game in a less effective manner than veterans, but you can begin to play from the start.

Like Hal Safon said to you, you can begin to use T1 frigates and destroyers and have fun with them, and you can basically try a lot of stuff: missions, PVP (solo, small gang, fleet), Mining, Industry, PI, scamming and so on. Yes, it will be less efficient but will stay fun to do.

There is another range of skills to learn, yours as a player; because there are good and bad ways to do things in the game, that of course the tutorials doesn't explain to you but are also fun to discover even if it means to lost a ship or two.

Eve doesn't excuse any errors, but in this case it isn't different than a combat flight sim when you pass so much hours to plan your flight and all that to be shooted by a SAM because you forgot to enable your ECMs before to take off.

NB: for the list of frigates press ALT + 1 to display ISIS with all the diagrams of the different spacecrafts.


Well said.

Some people mistake their own impatience for "things should go faster" which leads IMO to threads like this.

It also leads to Raven wrecks in lvl 4 missions because the pilot was 1 month old and thought it was a good idea to try those missions with light missiles in his battleships high slots and a dual tech 1 shield and armor tank lol. Gotta get to that end game asap lol.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#533 - 2014-04-11 17:12:22 UTC
There's a reason threads about this keep getting locked, they end up in deadlock.

On the one hand you have those who've been playing Eve for years and generally know what they're talking about when it comes to Eve, the mechanics and how stuff actually works. On the other hand you have those that are relatively new to Eve and don't have a clue but are unwilling to learn or discard the baggage they've brought with them from other MMOs.

CCP are not going to change a fundamental mechanic of the game to appease a bunch of people who refuse to adapt to the environment they're playing in. To do so risk alienating their long term customers, and most of the people wanting it changed would quit after a few months regardless.

To the people who would like Eve to change to suit them I say GTFO, stop trying to water down a successful formula that has been going for 10+ years so that we're still left with a halfway decent sandbox when you go on to the next best thing.

It's like asking the FA or NFL to change how their games are played because you want to play basketball not football (either kind)

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#534 - 2014-04-11 17:12:29 UTC
Hal Safon wrote:
Karak Kashada wrote:
Hal Safon wrote:

If you want to advance more quickly.... Find a way to lie, cheat, and steal enough ISK to buy a combat ready character. The purchase of characters is fully supported by CCP. I know people who have done this and within 6 months of starting the game had 50 million SP characters.

In general though, EVE is for the planner, the schemer, and is intended to be long term investment. It is obviously not for all people and that is probably the reason EVE had an average player age much higher than virtually any other MMO.

Sorry it didn't work out for you.

Also, I should point out that I have many many millions of SP but spend at least 50% of my time in frigates that a new player can fly perfectly inside of 6 months. A massive amount of SP is not needed to effective in EVE, but planning, strategy, and teamwork usually are.
Thanks for your post. Could you link or describe the typical fit on the T1 frigates you fly? Thanks.


Either a merlin or incursus would be my recommendation.

Merlin is great because it is cheap, tanky, and relatively quick. M typical fit is something like,

3 blasters (neutrons if u can fit)

MSE, web, scram, microwarp

DC, magnetic field stab, micro aux power core.

Not particularly hard to fit, and can be made quite cheaply by substituting meta modules for tech II. Fit some of these, grab 1-3 friends, and you have a decent little gang that can take on other frigs, dessies, and the occasional lonely cruiser.

I probably have over 1 billion of kills in a merlin/incursus in the last month.
Thanks. Couple more questions. If one does not want to "grab 1-3 friends," but would rather fly solo, is this fit still relevant for the activity you described? Also, a what level of skills, per mod, is this fit relevant for a solo pilot (1..3...5?) Muchas Gracias.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#535 - 2014-04-11 17:12:32 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
You either read what i typed to Jenna Side and begin questioning it, which might result in a legitimate answer, or you can make your demands without doing so and continue to not get what you want.
I read what you typed to Jenn, which is why I questioned it. You have yet to give any kind of legitimate answer that isn't an evasion or an reference to missing evidence (missing, because you refuse to provide it).

You stated, without proof, that he was lying. I'm asking you how. You can't explain how. That puts your claim into question and makes it seem like you're the one who's lying here.
Wulfgar WarHammer
Unrustled
#536 - 2014-04-11 17:14:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gotta get to that end game asap lol.


This entire thread could be tl;dr'ed with this sentence. IMO

The whole concept of 'end-game' in an MMORPG (games that aren't meant to end) is just ass-backwards. Probably why I love EvE so much: There is no defined end-game. There's no 'Level cap'. There's no 'gear requirements' to be able to participate in X content.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#537 - 2014-04-11 17:15:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Karak Kashada wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Koz Katral wrote:
What Karak is getting at is that Jenna doesn't appear to be one of these people as he keeps resorting to "lol u dumb, me not" as a legitimate response.
Considering the content of Karaks' posts, you're dumb is a fairly legitimate response. Jenn is posting with the advantage of actually having a clue, unlike Karak.

Many posters agree with me. Do they also not have a clue? If so, upon what basis do you make this claim? That you agree with those who disagree?
Even more disagree with you. General consensus amongst older or wiser players than yourself is that you're wrong.

If you don't like Eve for what it is, you're welcome to find another game that's more to your liking, meanwhile stop trying to ruin the one that we actually enjoy.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Wulfgar WarHammer
Unrustled
#538 - 2014-04-11 17:15:33 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Thanks. Couple more questions. If one does not want to "grab 1-3 friends," but would rather fly solo, is this fit still relevant for the activity you described?


Why does this not surprise me... One... Bit ....
SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#539 - 2014-04-11 17:15:36 UTC
Karak Kashada wrote:
Hal Safon wrote:

If you want to advance more quickly.... Find a way to lie, cheat, and steal enough ISK to buy a combat ready character. The purchase of characters is fully supported by CCP. I know people who have done this and within 6 months of starting the game had 50 million SP characters.

In general though, EVE is for the planner, the schemer, and is intended to be long term investment. It is obviously not for all people and that is probably the reason EVE had an average player age much higher than virtually any other MMO.

Sorry it didn't work out for you.

Also, I should point out that I have many many millions of SP but spend at least 50% of my time in frigates that a new player can fly perfectly inside of 6 months. A massive amount of SP is not needed to effective in EVE, but planning, strategy, and teamwork usually are.
Thanks for your post. Could you link or describe the typical fit on the T1 frigates you fly? Thanks.

This is exactly your issue, you are not willing to do the work. Like others have said, EVE is about planning and teamwork, skills have never kept me back of what I wanted to do in EVE, I was in wormhole on day 1. It's literally all about the knowledge and not the skills which is a point you are missing or don't want to understand.

If you can't enjoy EVE in a frigate, you won't enjoy EVE. Saying that, for some it takes some time to grasp what kind of game EVE actually is and I don't think you should give up, I also mined, ran missions and all the boring stuff I never truly enjoyed. Until you realise what EVE is actually about, and what you can really do in EVE, I don't believe you will enjoy it.

Just to give an extreme example, of The Mittani leader of Goonswarm Federation, he would be able to do what he currently does without a character, no skills points are necessary. Knowledge and planning/communication skills however..

I disagree

Karak Kashada
Silver Talon
#540 - 2014-04-11 17:17:09 UTC
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gotta get to that end game asap lol.


This entire thread could be tl;dr'ed with this sentence. IMO

The whole concept of 'end-game' in an MMORPG (games that aren't meant to end) is just ass-backwards. Probably why I love EvE so much: There is no defined end-game. There's no 'Level cap'. There's no 'gear requirements' to be able to participate in X content.

I don't believe in end-game, so you're going to have to put on that thinking cap a little longer to figure out what this thread is about.