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NEWS - ISHUKONE ADMINISTRATORS ANNOUNCE ARCURIO TAKEOVER BID
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Gregory Na'Dare
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-04-11 16:05:15 UTC
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:
TomHorn wrote:
Very surprised Noden, on face value welcome it. How do you feel, about your goverment potentially handing back some of their control of the planet to the State.


Well seeing as there have been no official reports or news briefs publically released by The Federal Senate, I would like to know what sorts of agreements are being discussed.

Are The Senate and Ishukone working on ensuring the safety of all who live on the planet?
Will businesses which have ties to the Federation be protected and allowed to compete in the changing environment?
And how can the more moderate members of both The Federation and The State be brought in to further strengthen any diplomatic relations?

You didn't ask me particularly but I will give you an answer. Hearing the place you were born has just been traded away to an implacable enemy makes me nervous as h***. For me the desire for peace isn't nearly so great as wanting my friends and family to be safe. I just hope those responsible on both sides kept the costs in mind when they set the price.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-04-11 16:20:47 UTC
well, you can either adapt to changing circumstances and put in the work to ensure that the "implacable enemy" doesn't turn out to be the mirror-helmeted shockprod-swinging thugs you fear, or you can whine about it.

If you're worried about Caldari brutality, maybe it's time to start talking to us rather than insulting us by assuming that it's going to happen and making worried noises on GalNet.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2014-04-11 16:28:34 UTC
You really used Shockprods? We were issued with Sicksticks and I always preferred them because of their lack of EM output. We used Shockprods once in a Civil Disobedience scenario and you could barely get messages through your helmet radios while they were fired up.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#24 - 2014-04-11 16:31:57 UTC
Sicksticks?

Alright. So, I had basic drill and weapons training along with everyone else-- the usual twirl-an-old-rifle, field-strip-a-gun, shoot-some-targets, why-are-we-running-twenty-kilometers-oh-Maker stuff -- but didn't get much familiarization with non-lethal weapons.

Are these sonic? Or do they use narcotic injection methods?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-04-11 16:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Come on, have you ever known a modern professional security force use EITHER mirrored helmets or shockprods if there was an alternative available? I was expressing scorn for the things Na'Dare here is scared of.

No, we had NII* batons, shoulder-mounted TOLVID** systems and SID*** guns for riot work. Plus stick-and-shock rounds, gelbag rounds and emetic gas grenades****.

*Neural Impulse Inhibitor
**Targeted Optical-spectrum Laser Visual Interference and Disruption
***Sonic Induced Disorientation
****Affectionately known as EGGs.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-04-11 16:41:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Bryen Verrisai
Sick sticks are sonic-based non-lethal weaponry. Effective, but their ethical legitimacy is a frequent topic of debate in the Federation due to the unsettling effects of the weapon and speculated long-term side-effects.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#27 - 2014-04-11 16:42:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Morwen Lagann
Stitcher wrote:
SID guns

I really don't think Afraldir needs to be weaponized further.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2014-04-11 16:54:59 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Sick sticks are sonic-based non-lethal weaponry. Effective, but their ethical legitimacy is a frequent topic of debate in the Federation due to the unsettling effects of the weapon and speculated long-term side-effects.


I can't recall ever hearing complaints. Mind you, that wasn't my department. At least they don't cause contact burns, like Shockprods can in the rain or when deployed alongside watercannon.

As for mirrored helmets, can you imagine keeping those clean?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
#29 - 2014-04-11 16:58:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Noden Vorpalstar
Stitcher wrote:
I was expressing scorn for the things Na'Dare here is scared of.


Pilot Na'Dare's fears are not unwarranted. Keep in mind that he is Gallentean born on Caldari Prime. 'Home' is just as much a part of his life as it is ethnic Caldari.

None of us can say for sure yet, what may have been negotiated between The Senate and Ishukone, however it can be assumed that each side is giving up something. We can only wait to see what that cost is, and if it has been worth it.

Public Channel:  Polaris-Public Roleplaying Channel:  Gallente Lounge
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-04-11 17:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Can you imagine how heavy mirrored helmets would have to be to provide any real protection, for that matter?

Give me a solid opaque armour-composite covered with micro visual-spectrum sensor scales any time. Ishukone Watch Type 12 riot armor wasn't that far removed from the assault dropsuits worn by a DUST merc. Minus the shields and sophisticated EWAR systems, obviously.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-04-11 17:03:50 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I can't recall ever hearing complaints.

As I recall hearing from a buddy in Fed Nav R&D, the main concerns are various isolated incidents that are difficult to replicate in a lab. Stuff like the sonic vibrations causing a guy's eyes to pop out, or a woman's internal bleeding caused by the rupturing of especially weak bowel tissue during the induced spasms.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-04-11 17:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
As I recall hearing from a buddy in Fed Nav R&D, the main concerns are various isolated incidents that are difficult to replicate in a lab. Stuff like the sonic vibrations causing a guy's eyes to pop out, or a woman's internal bleeding caused by the rupturing of especially weak bowel tissue during the induced spasms.


All of which is why the correct term is "LESS-lethal" weaponry. There is no such thing as non-lethal weaponry: nothing that can even remotely qualify as a weapon has zero potential to inflict fatal injury. The point of less-lethal weaponry is that fatal injury should only result from abnormal scenarios and use.

That being said, I don't see how a TOLVID or SID could kill somebody unless you started beating them round the head with it.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2014-04-11 17:31:05 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I can't recall ever hearing complaints.

As I recall hearing from a buddy in Fed Nav R&D, the main concerns are various isolated incidents that are difficult to replicate in a lab. Stuff like the sonic vibrations causing a guy's eyes to pop out, or a woman's internal bleeding caused by the rupturing of especially weak bowel tissue during the induced spasms.


Well, that can be an issue, yes. But, then, you should see some of the wicked side effects that the emetic gas grenades can present when they interact with medication or, worse, boosters. I think the idea of Sicksticks is that they're, as Stitcher said, LESS lethal not completely non-lethal. Back in the bad old days, the cops used to just use sticks or batons - can you imagine the damage that used to inflict?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#34 - 2014-04-11 17:32:40 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I can't recall ever hearing complaints.

As I recall hearing from a buddy in Fed Nav R&D, the main concerns are various isolated incidents that are difficult to replicate in a lab. Stuff like the sonic vibrations causing a guy's eyes to pop out, or a woman's internal bleeding caused by the rupturing of especially weak bowel tissue during the induced spasms.


Well, that can be an issue, yes. But, then, you should see some of the wicked side effects that the emetic gas grenades can present when they interact with medication or, worse, boosters. I think the idea of Sicksticks is that they're, as Stitcher said, LESS lethal not completely non-lethal. Back in the bad old days, the cops used to just use sticks or batons - can you imagine the damage that used to inflict?

And here I was, thinking that the cleft chins on some Civire were a hereditary thing. The more you know.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#35 - 2014-04-11 17:34:22 UTC
The contemptuous responses made by our Caldari friends to Mr. Na’Dare’s very real concerns speak volumes.

Their disregard does nothing but confirm and reinforce the very real and legitimate fears held by many Federal citizens on Caldari Prime.

We can only trust that those making these decisions give careful consideration to the lives affected and the ramifications to their own political ambitions.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2014-04-11 17:38:59 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
The contemptuous responses made by our Caldari friends to Mr. Na’Dare’s very real concerns speak volumes.

Their disregard does nothing but confirm and reinforce the very real and legitimate fears held by many Federal citizens on Caldari Prime.

We can only trust that those making these decisions give careful consideration to the lives affected and the ramifications to their own political ambitions.


Who has been contemptuous? Verin attempted to set him at ease and the rest of us murmured support for what Ishukone's doing - which is negotiated diplomatic settlement, rather than guns blazing murder.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-04-11 18:11:42 UTC
Stitcher wrote:

It's a shame, but the fact is that we want Home back. Asking nicely didn't work at all: violence didn't work in the long run. Negotiation may have its own flaws, not least being that, I agree, we really shouldn't HAVE to pay for what is ours, but given that the alternative is, it seems, to never get it back at all then, well, I guess the thief gets paid.

Violence always works.
If it doesn't work, you are just doing it wrong.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
chaosjj
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-04-11 18:32:15 UTC
Nagotiating for administration of Arcurio is a small price to pay when one takes into consideration what price the inhabitants of the city have payed in the wake of operation Highlander, and the destruction they suffered when the CN Shiigeru impacted the surface. Caldari prime has seen enough violence, and i praise Ishukone's peacefull initiative.
Gregory Na'Dare
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-04-11 21:38:18 UTC

Stitcher wrote:
well, you can either adapt to changing circumstances and put in the work to ensure that the "implacable enemy" doesn't turn out to be the mirror-helmeted shockprod-swinging thugs you fear, or you can whine about it.

If you're worried about Caldari brutality, maybe it's time to start talking to us rather than insulting us by assuming that it's going to happen and making worried noises on GalNet.

Nothing we say or do will change what has already happened on Caldari Prime. It seems the deal is done. Not meaning to offend Mr. Stitchers sensitivities, my limited experience has taught me that talking nice rarely has any positive effect when dealing with Caldari. My hope lies in the fair mindedness of the Federal negotiators.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#40 - 2014-04-11 22:20:11 UTC
Hm.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?