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EVE: the Game you Wait to Play

First post
Author
Big Lynx
#381 - 2014-04-11 12:29:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Big Lynx
Koz Katral wrote:


Fly carriers, fly black ops battleships, fly all the tech 3 cruisers, fly bhaalgorns, fly a vindi - sprinkle it with chocolate drops, fly a dread, have perfect large gun skills, have perfect missile skills. PVP on a level I knew I could in the ships I wanted too, instead of playing second class citizen. Pretty much that.


And surely all for free, you dont wanna pay for it, do you? Don't forget to lose carrier, black ops. t3, vindis and stuff, then plz write a ragethread here about how imbalanced and unfair eve is, and ragequit. Don't forget to give your stuff away in the end!

Koz Katral wrote:


The huge difference is now, that as the more time passes, the wider the skill gap becomes - the harder it is for new players to come and compete on the same level.


so sweet.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#382 - 2014-04-11 12:30:51 UTC
Koz Katral wrote:



The huge difference is now, that as the more time passes, the wider the skill gap becomes - the harder it is for new players to come and compete on the same level.


1st off, who exactly told you you were supposed to compete "on the same level" as someone how has played for a decade? This is the problem with "other MMOs", they offer than artificial "equality" (with level caps and such) that weaker gamers need to feel important so they keep playing the game.

EVE does not do this. EVE says "you will never 'catch up' to people who have played longer, your only option is to use what you have, be smart and outthink them". If you don't like that, then EVE isn't for you.

I started playing in 2007. I don't sit around thinking "damn those 2006 guys, I can't catch up, I can fly 3 races of HAC and they can fly 4!!!". All I say to them 2006 players is "pew pew" and they say "ouch, you podded me, noob".


Secondly, EVE isn't some kind of mmo where you even need to catch up. You GROUP up with other newbros and watch Mr 100 million skill points bittervet cap pilot go pop to you 25 newbro frigates.
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#383 - 2014-04-11 12:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Koz Katral
At no point have I complained the game is too hard - I would welcome the game to be even harder. What I want is for people to able to access this hard content a lot faster. Competitive players looking for a challenge are the players you want right?
Quote:

Which is why I've been saying for years: it's a dumb idea for EVE to go for 'more subs' at the expense of QUALITY players who actually can cut it in a non-thempark MMO. EVE does and will always need new blood, but dumbing down the game to invite more "other mmo" players is nothing more than a recipe foe the wrong (whiney, uncreative, greedy) types of people



Quality players are not players who are happy to sit in a high sec station for 3 months, mine a few rocks, shoot some mission rats and then eventually suck up to a null sec renter corp where they can be babysit by players exactly like them with vastly more experience. Yet that is exactly what the game attracts in its current state - Good competitive players that want to push the game to its limit have little reason to even start playing. The player base stagnates, the activity declines, and forum warriors who have never even shot another player sit on the forums posting 'LUL CAN I HAS YOUR SUTFF?'
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#384 - 2014-04-11 12:39:25 UTC
I haven't read this thread and don't plan to, so i don't know if anyone else pointed this out. But in the past I've describe certain ways of thinking and 'insidious' and 'cancerous'. Here is another such example from the OP.

Karak Kashada wrote:
What I oppose is the idea that a game—any game—should be founded on the principle of play without reward.


A perfect example of the 'themepark/carebear' way of thinking. It's not enough that most mmos hand-hold people to death. It' doesn't matter that no one is forcing this dude to play EVE.

No, all that matters is that "OMG, something different from the norm exists...KILL IT". This is why i bang the drum of continuing EVEs 'exclusive' nature. It's good that EVE turns most of these types of gamers away (though as you can see, we still get them). This is why the "the game will be better with more people so moar subs naow!" people are just flat WRONG.

If we wanted to play a game with leveling and 'catching up' to vets and totally safe zones where no unwanted pvp happens ect ect, we'd be playing games NOT named 'EVE Online'.

Well at least most of us wouldn't. Some people just can't help but walk into a situation, find that they don't like it but then refuse to leave because they have some kind of twisted "I can fix this" mentality. Which unsurprisingly sounds like just about how most off our ex-GFs/spouses think.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#385 - 2014-04-11 12:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Koz Katral wrote:
At no point have I complained the game is too hard - I would welcome to the game to be even harder. What I want is for people to able to access this hard content a lot faster. Competitive players looking for a challenge are the players you want right?


So you think you are entitled to 'hard content' faster than the people who paid their space-dues for a decade to get where they are? Sorry, this is not WoW.

Quote:

Quality players are not players who are happy to sit in a high sec station for 3 months, mine a few rocks, shoot some mission rats and then eventually suck up to a null sec renter corp where they can be babysit by players exactly like them with vastly more experience.


This is the problem right here. No one demands you do this, not even the game.\

Goons and other groups throw new players at null sec or low sec or wormhole space shortly after they are born so they don't develop the high sec "I can't do anything yet" mentality you are displaying.

The failure is partly a personal failure on the part of the new player (being to scared to just jump in and play and damn the skill points because frigates work). But the rest of the failure is on CCP for providing a THEMEPARK new player experience of mining rocks and shooting NPCs in a game that is about a player driven sandbox.

Quote:

Yet that is exactly what the game attracts in its current state - Good competitive players that want to push the game to its limit have little reason to even start playing. The player base stagnates, the activity declines, and forum warriors who have never even shot another player sit on the forums posting 'LUL CAN I HAS YOUR SUTFF?'


BS. Good competitive players don't need help, nothing stops them from competing. And now this game has all kinds of 'accelerated' crap for new players like boosters that give your more dps and faster training for the 1st 35 days.

How much more hand holding to these people need? None of this accelerated crap was around when i started and i managed just fine.

No, the problem isn't the game, it's players who are not mentally suited to EVE online wanting EVE to be modified to cater to them. Sorry, no, if you want that you should be playing Star Trek Online or waiting for Star Citizen to drop in 2025.
Big Lynx
#386 - 2014-04-11 12:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Big Lynx
Karak Kashada wrote:
I migrated to EVE from another MMO in January, 2014, at the energetic urging of a friend. "It is an awesome MMOG," he promised.

I must admit that, initially, the game appeared to have much to offer. The training missions awarded me with complimentary ships, free skills (that trained in minutes!), engagements with nasty pirates, and you got to fly through space at warp speed! Pretty cool. While zipping around the universe in my shiny Sukuuvestaa Heron, there seemed to be no limit to the adventures that surely awaited me in New Eden. After all, if the new-player content was this rewarding, surely the "real world"—the place where the danger really was—could only offer an even greater experience. My mind was an endless sea of ideas—visions of where I would go, the losses I would suffer, the scumbags I would pop, and the perils I would conquer.

A couple months later, reality has finally settled in, and it isn't pretty. EVE is not the exciting adventure I imagined it would be in those initial hours and days of playing. Quite frankly, it is an utterly maddening experiment in "hurry up and wait." I have concluded—and there is no other conclusion that I can draw outside of cognitive dissonance—that EVE is not a game you play; it is a game you wait to play.

What does that mean? It means that, once you get your noob ships and skills, advancing in the game is not a reflexive process at all. Nothing you do in-game will hasten your acquisition of the skills and ships you need to make your bigger EVE dreams a reality. You are stuck in a truly endless training queue. And there is no superlative in that statement—the training queue is endless. For no sooner do you conquer your first twenty-or-thirty-something-day training marathon, finally getting your hands on that coveted ship that promises to lift you to new heights, than you discover that you can't equip the mods you want for it without enduring an additional multi-week training queue for EACH of them. And after you have endured those as well, you will discover that, even then, your dream eludes you, because you still must endure many more multi-week training queues before you can fit all those mods on your ship anyway. Not enough CPU, not enough Power Grid. More skills needed. More waiting. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting. What appeared to be tolerable at the outset (a 20-or-so-day training wait), you discover is more like a 200-day training wait.

At this point, you have discovered EVE's dirty little secret—you don't play EVE to advance toward what you want; you wait for EVE to tell you that you can have what you've wanted since day one. The all-powerful "Requirements" tab is become your brutal and merciless master. And heaven forbid that you should, at any time, change your mind about what you want to be, or what class of ship you want to fly. For you will have to start a great deal of the training marathon over again.

EVE's is an outrageous advancement system. But don't misunderstand my position. The passage of time that precedes the acquisition of something of value—this is not a reality that I necessarily oppose. What I oppose is the idea that a game—any game—should be founded on the principle of play without reward. And make no mistake, aside from whatever reward a given player will ascribe to the game of his own will, EVE, as a game, does not inherently reward players for their play time, except with in-game currency. But, lo and behold, players can buy that with real money! So even that is not necessarily a reward. And money doesn't mean squat in EVE until your master—the "Requirements" tab—tells you that you have something decent to spend it on.

It is stupefying to me that EVE has lasted as long as it has with this advancement system in place. Again, no superlative intended.

If you are an EVE veteran, I salute you. You have done what I cannot—and will not—do; you have endured the perpetual training cycles required to, at last, land you in the place you wanted to be. My time is simply worth more than what EVE offers in exchange.

If you are thinking about joining EVE, consider yourself forewarned.



Doc Fury wrote:


OMG!!!11 WAHAHHHAHAHJAJJJJAAAAAA
Wulfgar WarHammer
Unrustled
#387 - 2014-04-11 12:52:00 UTC
I haven't really read through the 20 pages, but I'm only a 9 month-ish old Character, and I feel in no way whatsoever similar to the OP. If I wanted theme-park I'd go play Elder Scrolls or some other garbage. I'm glad 95% of the replies I read in this thread told the OP to go get his kicks somewhere else, those posters are absolutely right.

EvE is one of the best games out there, it has my sub money, and I'm still a 'new player' kind of gamer they are trying to attract. I tried getting 4 of my friends to join, did missions with them, gave them a few dessies with garbage fits, and none of them are here today. Where they are, is adding to the toxic experience that is League of Legends, because they have the attention spans of an average squirrel, and EvE was 'too complicated' for them. The instant gratification/entitlement crowd in Online games nowadays is ENORMOUS.

It takes a special kind of person to play EvE Online, and that is one of its best aspects. The people who do stay are serious about the game. They are (mostly) intelligent, they do their research, they create content, they work for what they want to achieve. I must say, in my short time here, I have noticed some attempts at casualization. I can't really speak for people who have been here for years, but I assume this has been going on for quite some time, and I don't think it's the way to go for CCP. I think they should just take a step back from their "We need more new players" approach and just accept the fact that it takes a special kind of person to play EvE. Cater to these folks, keep them subbed, and leave the theme-park antics for Blizzard scrubs.

My 0.2 isk
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#388 - 2014-04-11 12:53:07 UTC
Dalloway Jones wrote:
I blame the parents. Kids today don't have to work to earn anything. They just ask for it and they get it. Insufferable, self-entitled brats, all of them.


This is why.
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#389 - 2014-04-11 12:54:42 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Koz Katral wrote:
At no point have I complained the game is too hard - I would welcome to the game to be even harder. What I want is for people to able to access this hard content a lot faster. Competitive players looking for a challenge are the players you want right?


[quote]
So you think you are entitled to 'hard content' faster than the people who paid their space-dues for a decade to get where they are? Sorry, this is not WoW.


Actually Im in favour of skill points for plex to completely avoid this reason, 1 plex could equate to 30 days of accelerated skill training - and anyone that wants to invest the same amount of cash as a 10 year veteran to gain the same amount of skill points can.

However I'm sure the 'WE HATE ANYTHING THAT MIGHT INVOLVE REAL MONEY CAUSE THATS PAY TO WIN' lynch mob will quickly arrive with their pitch folks If I say that too loudly.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#390 - 2014-04-11 12:54:49 UTC
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:
I haven't really read through the 20 pages, but I'm only a 9 month-ish old Character, and I feel in no way whatsoever similar to the OP. If I wanted theme-park I'd go play Elder Scrolls or some other garbage. I'm glad 95% of the replies I read in this thread told the OP to go get his kicks somewhere else, those posters are absolutely right.

EvE is one of the best games out there, it has my sub money, and I'm still a 'new player' kind of gamer they are trying to attract. I tried getting 4 of my friends to join, did missions with them, gave them a few dessies with garbage fits, and none of them are here today. Where they are, is adding to the toxic experience that is League of Legends, because they have the attention spans of an average squirrel, and EvE was 'too complicated' for them. The instant gratification/entitlement crowd in Online games nowadays is ENORMOUS.

It takes a special kind of person to play EvE Online, and that is one of its best aspects. The people who do stay are serious about the game. They are (mostly) intelligent, they do their research, they create content, they work for what they want to achieve. I must say, in my short time here, I have noticed some attempts at casualization. I can't really speak for people who have been here for years, but I assume this has been going on for quite some time, and I don't think it's the way to go for CCP. I think they should just take a step back from their "We need more new players" approach and just accept the fact that it takes a special kind of person to play EvE. Cater to these folks, keep them subbed, and leave the theme-park antics for Blizzard scrubs.

My 0.2 isk


And THIS right here, folks, is an EVE player.
Dyscordia
Super Elite Friendship Club
#391 - 2014-04-11 12:58:24 UTC
Quote:
You are stuck in a truly endless training queue.


Actually the training queue is finite.

Thanks for posting.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#392 - 2014-04-11 12:58:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Koz Katral wrote:
Actually Im in favour of skill points for plex to completely avoid this reason, 1 plex could equate to 30 days of accelerated skill training - and anyone that wants to invest the same amount of cash as a 10 year veteran to gain the same amount of skill points can.

However I'm sure the 'WE HATE ANYTHING THAT MIGHT INVOLVE REAL MONEY CAUSE THATS PAY TO WIN' lynch mob will quickly arrive with their pitch folks If I say that too loudly.

You're right.

We will start waving pitchforks around if you suggest PLEX4SP or similar, because it's game breaking.

GTFO if that's the kind of game you want to play.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#393 - 2014-04-11 12:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Koz Katral wrote:


Actually Im in favour of skill points for plex to completely avoid this reason, 1 plex could equate to 30 days of accelerated skill training - and anyone that wants to invest the same amount of cash as a 10 year veteran to gain the same amount of skill points can.

However I'm sure the 'WE HATE ANYTHING THAT MIGHT INVOLVE REAL MONEY CAUSE THATS PAY TO WIN' lynch mob will quickly arrive with their pitch folks If I say that too loudly.


The only people who would benefit from this are the fine people at TheMittani.com who would then have no reason to write other articles because that website would become "All ALOD, ALL the time".

It's not a horrible idea just because of pay to win, it's a horrible idea because it's Anti-EVE. The mere fact of wanting something like that demonstrates that your choice to play EVE was an incorrect one.
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#394 - 2014-04-11 13:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Koz Katral
Paying to gain an advantage over your opponent sounds exactly like eve to me. Perhaps its just anti stuck in the mud forumites?
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#395 - 2014-04-11 13:20:05 UTC
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I play this game specifically because a kid cannot come in and grind 23/7 for a month and be more advanced than myself who has played for ten years across several accounts.

Should you be looking for instant gratification this is not the game. Should you be looking for a twitch reflex game, this is not it.

This is a game of relationships (meta) and planning. You have to be invested in multiple aspects of the game so you are not WAITING to play.

See what you made me do, OP? I had to go ahead and like an E-2C post! Shocked

Also, as for the “stupefying” part, realise this: the game has survived as long as it as in part thanks to its skill progression system, not in spite of it.

LMAO...Has world war Z started? I shall mark this day on my calendar to note that Tippia and I were in agreement. Big smile
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#396 - 2014-04-11 13:21:22 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I play this game specifically because a kid cannot come in and grind 23/7 for a month and be more advanced than myself who has played for ten years across several accounts.

Should you be looking for instant gratification this is not the game. Should you be looking for a twitch reflex game, this is not it.

This is a game of relationships (meta) and planning. You have to be invested in multiple aspects of the game so you are not WAITING to play.

See what you made me do, OP? I had to go ahead and like an E-2C post! Shocked

Also, as for the “stupefying” part, realise this: the game has survived as long as it as in part thanks to its skill progression system, not in spite of it.

LMAO...Has world war Z started? I shall mark this day on my calendar to note that Tippia and I were in agreement. Big smile


*Clicks like and has a stroke*
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#397 - 2014-04-11 13:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
I had to like the same post that Tippia did, the Apocalypse, or Ragnarök, is surely upon us if I'm agreeing with E-2C Hawkeye.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Solecist Project
#398 - 2014-04-11 13:30:02 UTC
lol I have to congratulate the OP for this brilliant trollthread.

But he couldn't have done it without all of you mindless idiots.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Wulfgar WarHammer
Unrustled
#399 - 2014-04-11 13:32:09 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
lol I have to congratulate the OP for this brilliant trollthread.

But he couldn't have done it without all of you mindless idiots.


Sad part is, he isn't trolling.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#400 - 2014-04-11 13:35:02 UTC
Koz Katral wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Koz Katral wrote:
Actually my biggest issue with the slow acquisition of skill points, is that you can learn, read and overcome the learning curve a lot faster than you can actually partake in the activities you want to do.

What exactly did you want to do as a new player then which you were not able to do?


Fly carriers, fly black ops battleships, fly all the tech 3 cruisers, fly bhaalgorns, fly a vindi - sprinkle it with chocolate drops, fly a dread, have perfect large gun skills, have perfect missile skills. PVP on a level I knew I could in the ships I wanted too, instead of playing second class citizen. Pretty much that.

Lol. And you expect anyone to take you seriously? And I am guessing you bought that character from someone else. Please go back to WoW, and I don't want your spoilt brat tainted stuff, so just trash it and then biomass.