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Drone Horde's... what were you thinking?
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Deathwing Reborn
#101 - 2011-11-30 19:23:53 UTC
Casius Omega wrote:
Lykouleon wrote:
I think the only alliance that is suffering from any changes to drone anomalies is the one that couldn't pull off an invasion of another region if their enemies had their hand tied behind their backs and could only fly newbie ships.

Looking at you IRC.



Yea the new incarnation of Goons have a real good track record of invading... but not actually changing anything..
Didn't someone give you there space?
What was the last thing you invaded and took over sov? BoB? oh wait you clicked a button and won. Oh then what happen.
The fact is you guys havnt done anything to talk about mentioning except mabye increasing the price of gas by 500isk per/unit in the last year+.



That's not true. It is worth mentioning they have maintained their hold on the title of worse alliance to join as well as the most unethical alliance that will let you join then steal your stuff and pod you.
Mograthi
#102 - 2011-11-30 19:26:54 UTC

Quote:

That's the whole problem and that we want to fix!!!
Because of drone mineral drops "isk/hour per person it still isnt worth it for an individual to mine."

Thnx for supporting our cause.

Edit:
so that all know our cause:


I could ask you who you are to talk for all miners since i have the skills to do so (thus could be considered a miner) and dont believe as you do but that is neither here nor there.

Look my point is even IF they change drones to bounty rats (please) it STILL will not be worth it for an INDIVIDUAL to mine. Will the prices of minerals go up sure but the isk/hour per person just isnt going to be there. Say generically 60 mil an hour doing anoms (regardless of region) and what 20 mil an hour for mining rock, which would you pick?

Removing drone alloy drops is part of the buff you seek, but there has to be other buffs to mining to make it worth while for an individual other than just removing drone drops as that alone isnt going to do it. Until mining on one account can make the same isk as ratting on one account, the person that can do both would be daft to choose the lesser of the two.
Aquila Draco
#103 - 2011-11-30 20:41:15 UTC
Mograthi wrote:

Quote:

That's the whole problem and that we want to fix!!!
Because of drone mineral drops "isk/hour per person it still isnt worth it for an individual to mine."

Thnx for supporting our cause.

Edit:
so that all know our cause:


I could ask you who you are to talk for all miners since i have the skills to do so (thus could be considered a miner) and dont believe as you do but that is neither here nor there.

Look my point is even IF they change drones to bounty rats (please) it STILL will not be worth it for an INDIVIDUAL to mine. Will the prices of minerals go up sure but the isk/hour per person just isnt going to be there. Say generically 60 mil an hour doing anoms (regardless of region) and what 20 mil an hour for mining rock, which would you pick?

Removing drone alloy drops is part of the buff you seek, but there has to be other buffs to mining to make it worth while for an individual other than just removing drone drops as that alone isnt going to do it. Until mining on one account can make the same isk as ratting on one account, the person that can do both would be daft to choose the lesser of the two.




Sorry if i was a little attacking but your last post was written a little hostile... but i see that you want to talk like a normal person here... Blink

So you support that drones loose minerals and get bounties and something else. Big smile

And about miners and mining maybe you wont mine, but believe me, ppl will mine.
Actually many ppl love to mine, but don't want to loose their dignity with situation like its now.
Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#104 - 2011-11-30 23:49:42 UTC
Deathwing Reborn wrote:
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
Deathwing Reborn wrote:
but both kills the horde site and its not really even worth doing.

You see that last sentence... that drone regions did with mining, and worse!!!!!!
You now have a clue how we, miners, feel and we have tens of millions of skill SP only in that!!!!
And you with you skills can do some other things, we can not!!!



^^ Base point of the problem.

Minerals to miners!!!



Ok so have CCP change our alloys into bounties and modules, don't reduce our ability to make isk just because CCP made drone space drop alloys.



I like when ppl agree with my post that i quoted another poster and agree with. Big smile

p.s.
Mining to miners!
Minister of Death
Colossus Enterprises
#105 - 2011-11-30 23:56:41 UTC
What's this? A happy ending?

This cannot stand.
Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#106 - 2011-12-01 00:13:49 UTC
Minister of Death wrote:
What's this? A happy ending?

This cannot stand.


I only hope that CCP sees that this is the only possible happy ending.
Give minerals back to miners and give to drone people something else!!!
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2011-12-01 01:27:39 UTC
Reading the thread every now and then seeing people point fingers here and there for what ever reason. Horde Sights got nerfed. Running a horde in 1 minute and 30 seconds is totall BS unless you were using a BOT.

Drone region info for the simple minded
1> Miners. yes we have them and they do fly a HULK
2> Combat Miners. Yes we have them in a TENGU
3> Minerals. We build or send to empire to sell or both

Short sweet simple. we have nightmares over the logistics of moving these things to make isk unlike those who are in Havens or sanctums who get the instant gratification of making more isk then those in Drone region area.

Now for those mining in empire....Not going to bother to say but there is a diffrence here and maybe you cannot see it but if you think about it you may realize it or hurt yourself
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#108 - 2011-12-01 05:08:19 UTC
I initially voiced my opinion on this issue in the anom balance feedback thread, and then again in the Crucible feedback thread. Both times I noted that while it may be a bug fix, it was an effective nerf to drone sanctums (hordes). However, since then I've seen a lot of screaming back and forth by both sides, about miners and ore and bots and etc but very little in the way of numbers and proof. I could tell by my wallet that this was indeed hurting the income, but I set out to find out exactly how bad.

http://www.orderofatlas.com/eve/drone_hordes.pdf

There are the results, it's about two and a half pages, there's a TL;DR at the top, but I hope it gets read all the way through anyway. Personally I could care less about the miners vs the drone minerals, all I care about is isk into my wallet to turn into pvp ships, so I didn't address that issue. I simply tried to analyze if there was an imbalance and if so how bad, not how to fix it. I'll leave that up to the game designers.

Enjoy.
Nikodiemus
Ganja Clade
Shadow Cartel
#109 - 2011-12-01 05:21:52 UTC
Drones dropping minerals is one of the most problematic additions to the game.
Aquila Draco
#110 - 2011-12-01 09:26:39 UTC
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
Reading the thread every now and then seeing people point fingers here and there for what ever reason. Horde Sights got nerfed. Running a horde in 1 minute and 30 seconds is totall BS unless you were using a BOT.

Drone region info for the simple minded
1> Miners. yes we have them and they do fly a HULK
2> Combat Miners. Yes we have them in a TENGU
3> Minerals. We build or send to empire to sell or both

Short sweet simple. we have nightmares over the logistics of moving these things to make isk unlike those who are in Havens or sanctums who get the instant gratification of making more isk then those in Drone region area.

Now for those mining in empire....Not going to bother to say but there is a diffrence here and maybe you cannot see it but if you think about it you may realize it or hurt yourself



Here is one more finger point, when you don't see noting of your egoism.
So, bot can do it in minute and 30 sacs and you can't?
Then bot is smarter then you.
Right there i am divided to read your post further or not...
But, ok.

Or maybe you are faster then bott and that't too much time written.

Then you admit you have botts.

Yea, you have it all and thats the problem.
All was working without you, then you came and killed the market with your TENGU mining and now scream that you don't get enough isk. And in the same time your TENGU mine few times more then hulk. And you dont have any skills in mining and mine better then ppl that lost tens of millions SP invested in mining that dont worth them a squat thnx to you. And with your skills you can do everything in eve and we can wipe our ass with ours.

And then you cry about "not enough isk" or "we need to do something"
poor you...

And about hauling and accounts...
To get any isk from mining at all you need separate boosting account and you need to haul too.
So dont tell me haow hard is salvaging and hauling.


So please read what ppl wrote and then turn your ego off and then write.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2011-12-01 10:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Avila Cracko wrote:
No ******* way that mineral drops is increasing even by 0.00001%
Do not screw miners even more...
Even now miners earns that its just so under the border of mans dignity...

and yours minerals are not so important you know... everything was fine before drone poop...

so... remove mineral drops from drones completely...


trit price is nearly doubled since the drone were implemented.
Or so i heard, read. : source : EVE-radio.

I personally dont mind either way. If drones will get like the other rats, better for raters i guess, no work to get their isk, just kill get blink in wallet and be happy.

Mineral price will go higher " maybe" that means people will activate their exhumer alts, and prices will drop right back.

No "real change" apart making people in drone regions happier.
seany1212
M Y S T
#112 - 2011-12-01 10:10:04 UTC
Sub Prime wrote:
There is an unbelievable amount of utter garbage in this thread, below is the truth:

1. Drone Horde alloys are worth less that Sanctum bounties.
2. Drone Hordes require savalging to get said alloys.
3. Depending on how you sell alloys, they might require a number of things done to them (refining/transportation/production) to realise the ISK value.
4. Drones Hordes can be completed in the same time as Sanctums.
5. Drones hit with multiple dmg types making them the hardest non WH anomolies to tank.

And now what's happened:

6. The horde that allowed easier salvaging (i.e. while you were doing the horde) has been removed.
7. Hordes now provide even less ISK because the alloy drops have been reduced.
8. Until bounties or another method of gaining ISK are on place, drones still drop alloys and this nerf needs to be resolved.


And yet drone horde spawn rates are greater than sanctums O.o

QQ some moar?
Majora Veneris
Doomheim
#113 - 2011-12-01 10:27:33 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:


trit price is nearly doubled since the drone were implemented.
Or so i heard, read. : source : EVE-radio.

I personally dont mind either way. If drones will get like the other rats, better for raters i guess, no work to get their isk, just kill get blink in wallet and be happy.

Mineral price will go higher " maybe" that means people will activate their exhumer alts, and prices will drop right back.

No "real change" apart making people in drone regions happier.



Demand has went up as well i'd be willing to wager since the drone regions were implemented. if it had been miners providing the minerals, and not the drone regions, prices would be even higher, actually making mining something worthwhile (albiet boring) to do.


TBH, just remove alloys from the drone regions, and give them bounties and random drops like everyone else. would go a long way towards fixing the flooded mineral market. I can't think of one GOOD argument against it.

[b]A Good Forum Post Is Like A Skirt.... Long Enough To Cover The Subject Matter, But Short Enough To Keep Things Interesting.[/b]
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#114 - 2011-12-01 10:28:35 UTC
Sub Prime wrote:
There is an unbelievable amount of utter garbage in this thread, below is the truth:

1. Drone Horde alloys are worth less that Sanctum bounties.
2. Drone Hordes require savalging to get said alloys.
3. Depending on how you sell alloys, they might require a number of things done to them (refining/transportation/production) to realise the ISK value.
4. Drones Hordes can be completed in the same time as Sanctums.
5. Drones hit with multiple dmg types making them the hardest non WH anomolies to tank.

And now what's happened:

6. The horde that allowed easier salvaging (i.e. while you were doing the horde) has been removed.
7. Hordes now provide even less ISK because the alloy drops have been reduced.
8. Until bounties or another method of gaining ISK are on place, drones still drop alloys and this nerf needs to be resolved.

Strictly enforce no-botting policy in all of the drone regions, and market forces will fix #1, which in return will fix all the other issues you posted.

Nyan
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2011-12-01 10:30:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
ssgt slaughter wrote:
Lets look at this Nerf Objectively.
Ok.

The Drone Regions have over time become the largest provider of minerals in the game, effectively killing off an entire profession (mining) and rendering the ships related to this profession increasingly pointless. Objectively, this is bad.

It is no secret that they are looking at fixing this problem by drastically altering or completely removing alloys to. They are taking the long view on this and are trying to satisfy its customers by offering a wide variety of activities across a wide variety of space. The current set-up of the drone regions hinders both of those and thus needs to change.

Whether the occupants of the drone regions like such a change is, objectively, almost irrelevant.


Personally i think this argument is flawed.

Lets have a look at Plush sales, the premier Rogue Drone compound: http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=11725 - 1.6 million units on the market at the moment.

Now at Veldspar sales: http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=1230 - 346 million units on sale.

That's less than 1 in 200 of Plush to Veld.

Yes compounds are used extensively in the Rogue Drone lands, as well as used to sell finished good to other alliances in 0.0.

But to kill off mining? Really?

I seriously do not want CCP to remove compounds and add bounties, mining is such a **** boring JOB that i for one do not want to do.

I think one of the better things that could be looked at though is the viability of changing some systems in other regions to have Rogue Drone rats. Not many systems, maybe a few in each different region. Make those systems a target system ala good tru sec systems, they could be rich in resources, less trouble to harvest, but be good afk cloaky systems.

All high sec missioners get random rogue drone missions, and drones themselves are quite different Vs other rats, why not capitalise on that instead of pushing people forcibly into a mining barge?

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2011-12-01 10:35:28 UTC
Majora Veneris wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:


trit price is nearly doubled since the drone were implemented.
Or so i heard, read. : source : EVE-radio.

I personally dont mind either way. If drones will get like the other rats, better for raters i guess, no work to get their isk, just kill get blink in wallet and be happy.

Mineral price will go higher " maybe" that means people will activate their exhumer alts, and prices will drop right back.

No "real change" apart making people in drone regions happier.



Demand has went up as well i'd be willing to wager since the drone regions were implemented. if it had been miners providing the minerals, and not the drone regions, prices would be even higher, actually making mining something worthwhile (albiet boring) to do.


TBH, just remove alloys from the drone regions, and give them bounties and random drops like everyone else. would go a long way towards fixing the flooded mineral market. I can't think of one GOOD argument against it.


If you do that, then people would be forced to MINE for minerals.

Mining = botting. If anyone has ever looked at the concept of an automated script (aka bot), they know that the less actions required = easier to operate.

CCPs systems admins need to have far better tools to use to detect them before making that change over imo, otherwise you are gonna see a lot of compressed ores on the market in high sec.

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Majora Veneris
Doomheim
#117 - 2011-12-01 10:35:52 UTC
Headerman wrote:

Stuff






If you don't want to mine, you don't have to. There are people who do enjoy Mining. There are lots of things to do in EVE. noone is FORCING anyone to do anything.

[b]A Good Forum Post Is Like A Skirt.... Long Enough To Cover The Subject Matter, But Short Enough To Keep Things Interesting.[/b]
bornaa
GRiD.
#118 - 2011-12-01 10:48:53 UTC
When you all have few tens of millions SP in mining then, and only then, you can mine!!!
What you train for that that you do!!!
Miners mine!!!
Other that trained other skills (pew pew in this case) CAN NOT MINE!!!
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Hemmo Paskiainen
#119 - 2011-12-01 10:55:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
CCP should just start with removing the top 3 high end ores from alloys, morphite, mega and zydrine. Or maybe only Morphite to go on at first.

Technicaly Drones are mechanical,..a sort of terminators. Machines. When destroyed they should drop machine parts and whatever they carry.

These machine parts could be bought with buy orders by npc station and concord station. Sort of tags. A nice storyline to add with it is that concord uses them to build their new ships with. So u can sell the parts to buy ordes. Another part to help this is seeding a small NPC concord space in the drone region whitch buys up these mechanic items and provided 0.0 concord missions. All eve corners have npc stations exept north east corner:

North venal
west npc fountain, syndicate, cloud ring
south npc delve
south east stain
east curse, great wildlands

Was this forgotten with implementation of drone regions or intended? this is also a thing that isolates drone region from rest of all regions. Its 1 happy big sov bloc

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Sub Prime
Perkone
Caldari State
#120 - 2011-12-01 10:57:52 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Strictly enforce no-botting policy in all of the drone regions, and market forces will fix #1, which in return will fix all the other issues you posted.


That's fine by me - please ensure this applies to all regions though. You'd be a naive little nipper if you thought the problem of botting within Eve is restricted to the drone regions.