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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#821 - 2014-04-11 01:23:34 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
There are a ton of opportunities here now that Amarr and Caldari drones are getting love, the fact that medium drones will be faster in general and the fact that it will be able to use RLMLs will a hefty damage bonus to wreck frigates.

I think thus sums it up nicely. Whether this holds for the Rattlesnake remains to be seen… I'll be ecstatic with just the missile damage bonus.

Why? You end up with 6 unbonused missile launchers.
Torps will have lost the range bonus so will force you to be inside 20k
6 unbonused cruise is next to pointless with heavy drones, which again by nature force you to be close to your target.
Forget rapid heavies because, well, , , heavy missiles
Use rigs to augment missile damage on a snake your pretty much committing suicide.
The PG & CPU nerfs that are sure to come with the "balance" will certainly have a big impact on how you fit the ship.

Gile & Rattlesnake, the 2 ships I loved to use sentries to snipe with - Gone.

I'm still curious about "Activation Proximity" for drones. Do drones only fire when in orbit (mwd off), or will they fire at a target while still in MWD mode?



CCP - I don't want to have to fly ships that are only usable for 1 thing, give back the sandbox nature of eve - give back the ability to fly ships as we choose.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#822 - 2014-04-11 02:00:31 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Why? You end up with 6 unbonused missile launchers.
Torps will have lost the range bonus so will force you to be inside 20k
6 unbonused cruise is next to pointless with heavy drones, which again by nature force you to be close to your target.
Forget rapid heavies because, well, , , heavy missiles
Use rigs to augment missile damage on a snake your pretty much committing suicide.
The PG & CPU nerfs that are sure to come with the "balance" will certainly have a big impact on how you fit the ship.

Gile & Rattlesnake, the 2 ships I loved to use sentries to snipe with - Gone.

Torpedoes are kind of a dead weapon system at this point; you need to give up a huge amount of tank for any reasonable damage application. As for cruise missiles, they work fine in an unbonused role on the Scorpion Navy Issue, so… Actually, if the "new and improved" Rattlesnake features kinetic and thermal damage it will totally rock with rapid heavy missile launchers (yes, I said it - fully expecting the ground to open up)… I'm still optimistic that we'll get heavy and sentry damage bonuses - even if this means fewer drones (albeit more powerful).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Liam Inkuras
Wildcard.
Boundary Experts
#823 - 2014-04-11 03:35:59 UTC
Pretty sure this thread is labeled [Pirate Faction CRUISERS], so give the BS talk a rest, and wait for that threadnaught.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#824 - 2014-04-11 03:56:17 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Pretty sure this thread is labeled [Pirate Faction CRUISERS], so give the BS talk a rest, and wait for that threadnaught.

It's related, and it's not like anything else is being discussed - so relax...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#825 - 2014-04-11 04:32:45 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Pretty sure this thread is labeled [Pirate Faction CRUISERS], so give the BS talk a rest, and wait for that threadnaught.

Cruiser changes for better or worse are set pretty much in stone. Why not have a little speculation how how this will affect the battleships?
Removing ships from the roles players choose to use them in is something we all should be concerned with.
So far 2 of the pirate cruisers I have enjoyed playing for a few years have significantly had their roles (for my use) either changed or removed. I really don't want to see this happen to the battleships.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#826 - 2014-04-11 04:49:56 UTC
Judging how the last rebalance threads have gone, I'm thinking the reason why Rise doesn't consider implementing valid player ideas that get brought up is because the credit or subsequent blame would go to the player in question, causing unintentional collateral damage to a customer.

This is the main issue with having an open forum, as the responsibility for fixing an issue lies soley with the devs, so having someone come up with a legitimately good idea to implement a change doesn't happen because the dev in charge of rebalancing a mechanic can't appear to be picking sides.

A possible solution to this to help alleviate concerns on both ends would be to have the dev in charge periodically link a poll listing concerns with the subject of the thread, ideas posted by players from the thread to vote on, and a extremely displeased to extremely pleased scale options for players to choose from.

Would you consider this an acceptable method for helping these Feature posts, both from a player and Dev perspective? The only reason why I see him boxed into odd ideas is so they don't appear to exhibit favoritism, or have one idiot posting around everywhere, "Hey, that was MY idea! (link post) everyone should be paying attention to ME!"

I think this would help solve a lot of the major communication problems we are having from the player base to the developers, and cut down on a lot of the hate and angst in these threads.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#827 - 2014-04-11 05:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Judging how the last rebalance threads have gone, I'm thinking the reason why Rise doesn't consider implementing valid player ideas that get brought up is because the credit or subsequent blame would go to the player in question, causing unintentional collateral damage to a customer.

This is the main issue with having an open forum, as the responsibility for fixing an issue lies soley with the devs, so having someone come up with a legitimately good idea to implement a change doesn't happen because the dev in charge of rebalancing a mechanic can't appear to be picking sides.

A possible solution to this to help alleviate concerns on both ends would be to have the dev in charge periodically link a poll listing concerns with the subject of the thread, ideas posted by players from the thread to vote on, and a extremely displeased to extremely pleased scale options for players to choose from.

Would you consider this an acceptable method for helping these Feature posts, both from a player and Dev perspective? The only reason why I see him boxed into odd ideas is so they don't appear to exhibit favoritism, or have one idiot posting around everywhere, "Hey, that was MY idea! (link post) everyone should be paying attention to ME!"

I think this would help solve a lot of the major communication problems we are having from the player base to the developers, and cut down on a lot of the hate and angst in these threads.


So the alternative? Lets make it worse? For something I saw if aint broke don't fix it. Ships like the Vigi and Ashimmu is being changed just because it seems.

I find that irritating, they are making them worse. 2 ships rarely seen or used are going to be even more rarely seen or used. I will prolly fiddle with my two ships a bit to since their current fits wont work anymore and then I will go **** no and sell them before the prices tank. That might have have been the idea all along.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Draco Knight
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#828 - 2014-04-11 06:41:32 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Draco Knight wrote:
Give the ashimmu nos range bonus only and give back the 1 high slot, loose 1 med slot for the additional 1 low slot instead.
Would be so much more brawler!!!
Could even nano it with the additional speed boost... lol!

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu

Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

no god no. loosing a mid on this ship will be devastating. this fit doesnt work on any of the 3 mid amarr ships and it wont work on this ship either.


It would work using buffed nos, no need for a cap booster. Yes it would not be the neuting boat it once was, but it would be niche nos boat, truly unique. But it needs additional buff to range too.

Come on CCP!
KatanTharkay
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#829 - 2014-04-11 07:47:34 UTC  |  Edited by: KatanTharkay
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Pretty sure this thread is labeled [Pirate Faction CRUISERS], so give the BS talk a rest, and wait for that threadnaught.

Cruiser changes for better or worse are set pretty much in stone.

Considering the changes to the other factions, that would be so sad for the poor Cynabal and the dull Angel ship line.
Samoth Egnoled
Caldari Provisions
#830 - 2014-04-11 08:02:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Samoth Egnoled
Can't say I am happy with the Vigilant changes.

- I cant remember ever thinking that i wished for more lock range or ever having a problem in that department.
- I have no issues with speed, especially with the Webbing bonus.
- The only thing that removing 150pg does, is remove the ability to fit a 1600mm plate onto it which gives it much less tank than the others, or you could down grade to Ions and lose half your dps.

Seems like a kick in the goolies to me...
To be fair, I have not had a chance to plug it into EFT as of yet.

EDIT* Typo's
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#831 - 2014-04-11 08:02:07 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Judging how the last rebalance threads have gone, I'm thinking the reason why Rise doesn't consider implementing valid player ideas that get brought up is because the credit or subsequent blame would go to the player in question, causing unintentional collateral damage to a customer.

This is the main issue with having an open forum, as the responsibility for fixing an issue lies soley with the devs, so having someone come up with a legitimately good idea to implement a change doesn't happen because the dev in charge of rebalancing a mechanic can't appear to be picking sides.

A possible solution to this to help alleviate concerns on both ends would be to have the dev in charge periodically link a poll listing concerns with the subject of the thread, ideas posted by players from the thread to vote on, and a extremely displeased to extremely pleased scale options for players to choose from.

Would you consider this an acceptable method for helping these Feature posts, both from a player and Dev perspective? The only reason why I see him boxed into odd ideas is so they don't appear to exhibit favoritism, or have one idiot posting around everywhere, "Hey, that was MY idea! (link post) everyone should be paying attention to ME!"

I think this would help solve a lot of the major communication problems we are having from the player base to the developers, and cut down on a lot of the hate and angst in these threads.


So the alternative? Lets make it worse? For something I saw if aint broke don't fix it. Ships like the Vigi and Ashimmu is being changed just because it seems.

I find that irritating, they are making them worse. 2 ships rarely seen or used are going to be even more rarely seen or used. I will prolly fiddle with my two ships a bit to since their current fits wont work anymore and then I will go **** no and sell them before the prices tank. That might have have been the idea all along.


All I was suggesting was that integrating a poll system much the same as they have for gathering opinions for their updates into the F&I threads for dev posts like this. I was implying that doing so would take the pressure off the devs a bit to be more open to player input, since they can't exactly copy someone's ideas from the forum thread, regardless of how good it may be.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#832 - 2014-04-11 08:21:03 UTC
Samoth Egnoled wrote:
Can't say I am happy with the Vigilant changes.

- I cant remember ever thinking that i wished for more lock range or every having a problem in that department.
- I have no issues with speed, especially with the Webbing bonus.
- The only thing that removing 150pg does, is remove the ability to fit a 1600mm plate onto it which gives it much less tank than the others, or you could down grade to Ions and lose half your dps.

Seems like a kick in the goolies to me...
To be fair, I have not had a chance to plug it into EFT as of yet.


Yep for 1600 plated Cruiser it was pretty quick already with a 10mwd. Not being able to lock 50km does not seem to be an issue with a ship that I prefer to be in your face with.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Jamir Von Lietuva
Nameless Minions
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#833 - 2014-04-11 08:43:17 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Samoth Egnoled wrote:
Can't say I am happy with the Vigilant changes.

- I cant remember ever thinking that i wished for more lock range or every having a problem in that department.
- I have no issues with speed, especially with the Webbing bonus.
- The only thing that removing 150pg does, is remove the ability to fit a 1600mm plate onto it which gives it much less tank than the others, or you could down grade to Ions and lose half your dps.

Seems like a kick in the goolies to me...
To be fair, I have not had a chance to plug it into EFT as of yet.


Yep for 1600 plated Cruiser it was pretty quick already with a 10mwd. Not being able to lock 50km does not seem to be an issue with a ship that I prefer to be in your face with.

lock range was a problem if you did a kitting rail shield fit, so good on that, but the pg nerf is unwarranted and unnecessary imo, how often do you see VIgilants flying these days anyway? Why do we want to make these ships so that people want to fly them even less.. Looking at Cynabal and Vigilant.

on the other hand Gila looks like its going to be awesome little ship

EVE seems to be turning into a Game Of Drones
Samoth Egnoled
Caldari Provisions
#834 - 2014-04-11 09:02:04 UTC
Jamir Von Lietuva wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Samoth Egnoled wrote:
Can't say I am happy with the Vigilant changes.

- I cant remember ever thinking that i wished for more lock range or every having a problem in that department.
- I have no issues with speed, especially with the Webbing bonus.
- The only thing that removing 150pg does, is remove the ability to fit a 1600mm plate onto it which gives it much less tank than the others, or you could down grade to Ions and lose half your dps.

Seems like a kick in the goolies to me...
To be fair, I have not had a chance to plug it into EFT as of yet.


Yep for 1600 plated Cruiser it was pretty quick already with a 10mwd. Not being able to lock 50km does not seem to be an issue with a ship that I prefer to be in your face with.

lock range was a problem if you did a kitting rail shield fit, so good on that, but the pg nerf is unwarranted and unnecessary imo, how often do you see VIgilants flying these days anyway? Why do we want to make these ships so that people want to fly them even less.. Looking at Cynabal and Vigilant.

on the other hand Gila looks like its going to be awesome little ship

EVE seems to be turning into a Game Of Drones


I can see your point that if you wished to Kite, then you may have problems with lockrange. However i think we agree that they are removing the PG is serving only to make the Vigilant even more unattractive to fly.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#835 - 2014-04-11 10:27:55 UTC
When are we getting the battleship proposals. I thought they would be out by today at the latest...
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#836 - 2014-04-11 10:28:37 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
When are we getting the battleship proposals. I thought they would be out by today at the latest...

I think this is what everyone is anxiously awaiting...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#837 - 2014-04-11 10:30:38 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
When are we getting the battleship proposals. I thought they would be out by today at the latest...

I think this is what everyone is anxiously awaiting...

*twiddles thumbs,,, and then twiddles thumbs some more*
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#838 - 2014-04-11 10:32:27 UTC
Can the Gila get at least as much cargo space as the Ishtar? Currently Gila has 250 compared to Ishtar's 460. And the Ishtar doesn't have to carry around missiles to make use of all its bonuses. The missile spewing Sacrilege gets a big ole badonkadonk 615 cargo hold. Biggow!

Gila sucks for exploration because of its cargo hold.
Zapp Senheiss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#839 - 2014-04-11 11:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zapp Senheiss
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Can the Gila get at least as much cargo space as the Ishtar? Currently Gila has 250 compared to Ishtar's 460. And the Ishtar doesn't have to carry around missiles to make use of all its bonuses. The missile spewing Sacrilege gets a big ole badonkadonk 615 cargo hold. Biggow!

Gila sucks for exploration because of its cargo hold.



Not sure i will ever fly the Gila for exploration again now that we have the Stratios, but yea Gila certainly could use more cargo space
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#840 - 2014-04-11 11:15:00 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
When are we getting the battleship proposals. I thought they would be out by today at the latest...


you should pretty much already know what they're going to be.