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unsubbing till off grid boosting removed

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Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#41 - 2014-04-10 21:31:45 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Tollen Gallen wrote:
Your Stoofs, i can Haz?




I like Bacon.

Wow a new pic!

And still the cutest looking one of them all!
Oops


Yeah yours needs work P


I like Haggis.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#42 - 2014-04-10 21:34:19 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Justifying OGB is like admitting you can't win without it. Why not push for OGRR while you are at it?

I don't believe that's the case.

Since joining the game 9 months ago I've had access to links when in fleet. We also take logistics. There are only a couple of guys in our regular fleets that have boosting alts, so we have links about 50% of the time on weekend roams. We still win without the links present.

The links though gives us a lot more flexibility. Some slots can be switched out from defensive mods to ewar and/or we can take on opponents with more confidence even if they are larger or in more powerful ships. We often fly frigates in FW areas, but will engage cruiser fleets when we have links for example (we often die then too, but we have fun).

For us, its not a compensation for anything. Its about flexibility and more freedom to engage different targets that we wouldn't otherwise.



This too, it can also compensate a bit for low skill, ewar is like that too. Even though its defensive its force multiplier and flexibility benefits can increase the engagement envelope and allow more fights.

It does not have to be solely used in the baited element of surprise role. Its element of surprise is considerably negated nowadays. There was a time when logi was like this too and people didn't know its capabilities. After it became common knowledge they became targets.

Which reminds me, I'll repeat myself and say OGB's should be hunted.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-04-10 21:35:45 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Because everything in EVE behave like in reality right? Why are projectiles from guns able to travel over 200 km withing a single second? How can my secure container hold more than it's own volume within itself?

It's not about what it's like in reality it's about balance. Why is a ship having an influence in combat not on the line of fire like all other ship having an effect on that same fight? It's just as stupid as the drone boat hiding behind a POS shield.


Ok, I admit, I cocked it by making a real world comparision, I apologise.

But why would ANY of this mean it suddenly makes sense to put a Command and Control Unit at the front in a battle?

Its just a terrible idea, there is no reason why it should be this way.

Either match it with your own, or hunt it down and kill it. What is wrong with that?


The fact that it's not on grid where the fight is happeneing is what is wrong. Your command unit in the sense of current IRL NORAD would be the off-grid prober giving a warpin on the enemy logi group by using it's own version of surveillance satellite (combat probes) to direct you in a strategic way. All the bonus we get out of boosters currently are more tactic which would be the equivalent of the "on the field" platoon leader directing his troop to to be more efficient on the field.

At least that what it look like from my point of view...
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-04-10 21:39:05 UTC
On-Grid only is worse than the way it is right now..
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-04-10 21:54:34 UTC
Irsam Samri wrote:
Hey, been playing Eve on and off for a few years....


Hey, i've been playing eve almost daily for 5 years, please leave the hunt-the-booster mini-game alone.
"Awesome warp-in on that sleipnir bro."
Aww yih.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#46 - 2014-04-10 21:56:14 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Because everything in EVE behave like in reality right? Why are projectiles from guns able to travel over 200 km withing a single second? How can my secure container hold more than it's own volume within itself?

It's not about what it's like in reality it's about balance. Why is a ship having an influence in combat not on the line of fire like all other ship having an effect on that same fight? It's just as stupid as the drone boat hiding behind a POS shield.


Ok, I admit, I cocked it by making a real world comparision, I apologise.

But why would ANY of this mean it suddenly makes sense to put a Command and Control Unit at the front in a battle?

Its just a terrible idea, there is no reason why it should be this way.

Either match it with your own, or hunt it down and kill it. What is wrong with that?


The fact that it's not on grid where the fight is happeneing is what is wrong. Your command unit in the sense of current IRL NORAD would be the off-grid prober giving a warpin on the enemy logi group by using it's own version of surveillance satellite (combat probes) to direct you in a strategic way. All the bonus we get out of boosters currently are more tactic which would be the equivalent of the "on the field" platoon leader directing his troop to to be more efficient on the field.

At least that what it look like from my point of view...

Fair enough but Im looking at it like a CandC ship in a fleet of.... um..... ah well more real world examples from us both so lets just stop here.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#47 - 2014-04-10 21:56:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Beekeeper Bob
Irsam Samri wrote:
Hey, been playing Eve on and off for a few years. I like the game in theory, it is just hard for me to find good fights, I find fights, just not goodfights. I would rather lose a substantial amount of isk in a close battle that taught me something than get on an even bigger killmail via a gatecamp.

off grid boosting is the crux for me. My 4 accounts are expiring. No you cant have my stuff I'll be back when its removed


Should have trained one of those characters for an off-grid booster...

If you've really played that many years, you should have figured out that PvP is not EvE's primary focus.

EvE is a meta-game, you win by bringing more ships, better ships, better boosts, better pilots, and by having better intel. Either you're properly prepared for the combat at hand, or your KB is red....

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#48 - 2014-04-10 21:56:30 UTC
Just have to add I made it quite a ways through the NEO, always flying the command ship, and without checking to be sure I think I was the last ship killed (When we lost) and I pretty sure we killed the opponents Command ship last or near to last when we won. So if they are so OP and in need of change why do they have so little impact on target priority when they are in actual use?

Or more simply put; Quit using Command links as an excuse to fail at EVE.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#49 - 2014-04-10 21:56:44 UTC
WTB perfect OGB!
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#50 - 2014-04-10 22:04:36 UTC
Black Panpher wrote:
WTB perfect OGB!

Wait till they screw it up and I will sell you mine, probably be a fire sale on Character Bazaar and OGB toons will be selling for Singularity price 100isk Lol

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#51 - 2014-04-10 22:06:13 UTC
Black Panpher wrote:
WTB perfect OGB!

15 days left to CS V… Cry
Hevymetal
POT Corp
#52 - 2014-04-10 22:13:47 UTC
Sorry to see you go o/

Of all the things in this game to complain and quit over OGB is personally down near the bottom of my list.

Now POSes in need of desperate updates ............
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#53 - 2014-04-10 22:31:51 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Because everything in EVE behave like in reality right? Why are projectiles from guns able to travel over 200 km withing a single second? How can my secure container hold more than it's own volume within itself?

It's not about what it's like in reality it's about balance. Why is a ship having an influence in combat not on the line of fire like all other ship having an effect on that same fight? It's just as stupid as the drone boat hiding behind a POS shield.


Ok, I admit, I cocked it by making a real world comparision, I apologise.

But why would ANY of this mean it suddenly makes sense to put a Command and Control Unit at the front in a battle?

Its just a terrible idea, there is no reason why it should be this way.

Either match it with your own, or hunt it down and kill it. What is wrong with that?


The fact that it's not on grid where the fight is happeneing is what is wrong. Your command unit in the sense of current IRL NORAD would be the off-grid prober giving a warpin on the enemy logi group by using it's own version of surveillance satellite (combat probes) to direct you in a strategic way. All the bonus we get out of boosters currently are more tactic which would be the equivalent of the "on the field" platoon leader directing his troop to to be more efficient on the field.

At least that what it look like from my point of view...


Armoured warfare as a boost makes no sense at all and the rest amount to using the command ship as a glorified multithread multicore CPU processor, which in a game where we can instantly communicate over 200+ lightyears, and if you have contact details into another dimension points more to the why would you want to be on field?

While I can understand if the gripe of an Off grid booster was about the booster being behind a POS shield (not sure if they can still do that or if CCP got around to it) you have every opportunity to probe down the command ship, lock it down and either scare it or force your opponent onto defensive measures. If you cannot do this then I would assume that you are not fighting against an even force and that their boosts are cutting your battle mercifully short.]

While this isn't F&I the only thing I would suggest to CCP to make warfare links a "siege" mode so that the ship itself is stuck in space while using their links. This would mean that FCs would have to be concious of the positioning of the command ships and be ready to pull forces to defend them off grid. This also means that people who are fast on their probes have a chance to catch out command ships.

By command I mean any ship with a warefare link.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2014-04-10 22:56:12 UTC
Super spikinator wrote:
While I can understand if the gripe of an Off grid booster was about the booster being behind a POS shield (not sure if they can still do that or if CCP got around to it) you have every opportunity to probe down the command ship, lock it down and either scare it or force your opponent onto defensive measures. If you cannot do this then I would assume that you are not fighting against an even force and that their boosts are cutting your battle mercifully short.
They got around to that in Odyssey.

Quote:
While this isn't F&I the only thing I would suggest to CCP to make warfare links a "siege" mode so that the ship itself is stuck in space while using their links.

Meh. This already mostly the case. Sure, they can try to evade probes by MWDing off grid, but if they try to relocate to evade capture in any meaningful way, they already lose all boosting capabilities.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#55 - 2014-04-10 23:41:47 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Justifying OGB is like admitting you can't win without it. Why not push for OGRR while you are at it?


Because OGB makes sense within the type of scifi EvE is


It doesn't matter. If we went with that qualification, we could justify all sorts of fun destroying mechanics.

How about this then, let there be a deployable (!) that will jam OGB on the grid entirely. Make it 300 m3 and last 60 mins. To use boosting, you would either have to destroy it or bring the booster to the grid.

Just because CCP hasn't figured out how to kill OGB without a mountain of code, doesn't mean it should be kept in the game. There is a reason there are immensely powerful ships able to fit ganglinks, and it isn't so they can OGB.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-04-11 01:15:01 UTC
i think it if was easier to scan down the booster that would change things a fair bit

it wouldn't effect 1v1 combat, but would make a difference in people willing to risk their alt
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-04-11 08:00:32 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I feel like starting a new boosting account to negate OP's departure.


I'll do worse and activate a miner.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#58 - 2014-04-11 08:11:31 UTC
Atleast 2 replies in this thread solved the entire issue:

Probes

The safest way to boost now is near a POS. But CCP changed combatboosting to work outside POS shields only.

And yes, a POS can shoot you
And yes, a booster may slide back in the shields
And yes, very few people can probe properly these days
And yes, very few gangs and fleets bring probers

So... practise probing and bring a probeship if you want a chance at killing off-grid boosters
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#59 - 2014-04-11 08:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Quote:
So... practise probing and bring a probeship if you want a chance at killing off-grid boosters


Exactly. Don't rely on CCP to solve your problems. Take responsibility for the situation you find yourself in and deal with it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#60 - 2014-04-11 08:52:07 UTC
Garandras wrote:
i think it if was easier to scan down the booster that would change things a fair bit

it wouldn't effect 1v1 combat, but would make a difference in people willing to risk their alt


It's already ridiculously easy to probe down safespot off-grid boosters.

Most off grid boosting is either just outside a POS or within docking radius

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016