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Amarr Dread in WH, Question
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Rina Niminen
Old Smugglers
#1 - 2014-04-10 05:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rina Niminen
Hi.
Question about high class wh
Revelation is competitive as compared with Moros?
what minus and plus? restrictions?
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#2 - 2014-04-10 07:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
Pros:
Ammo not required.
Best capacitor life.
Best armour tank.
You're not flying Moros_8893748562345b
It's a Revelation. Amarr master race.

Cons:
Worst DPS of gun dreads at meaningful ranges (basically anything less than 50kms).
Worst Tracking of gun dreads.
Shield tanking is better for PvP.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#3 - 2014-04-10 07:44:24 UTC
It is 3rd worst dread for cap esc. The latest tracking nerfs have tipped it over the edge into near uselessness compared to Nag and Moros. Having all V skills help make it barely passable.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#4 - 2014-04-10 07:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
Anize Oramara wrote:
It is 3rd worst dread for cap esc. The latest tracking nerfs have tipped it over the edge into near uselessness compared to Nag and Moros. Having all V skills help make it barely passable.


Having done cap escalations in a Rev (all Vs) it is the best choice of dread to be first dread when you're escalating all 4 waves pretty much straight away. Unlike the Moros and Naglfar, it actually has some capacitor and can happily tank all 4 waves of sleepers until they swap off, usually without having to stop shooting. Also, having 8 lows helps massively for fitting resists.

You wont get as much damage, but by god can you tank and resist neut pressure. I didn't ever have any issues hitting sleeper battleships. Tracking nerf is irrelevant.
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-04-10 10:31:50 UTC
I use all 3 dreads regurarly and I am max skilled for the Rev and Moros and use slave implants. We trigger all escalations at immediatly.

My experience in this context:
The Moros is way superior in DPS. When the Moros is primary for to long (wich happens fairly often because of your high DPS compared to other ships) especially early on in the site you `can` get in trouble with cap or armor, meaning you may have to drop siege and get reps and cap every now and then. Ofcourse, if you drop siege DPS drops.
The Revelation does less DPS but is more resiliant, i've never ever ever had to drop siege in a Rev yet.

I have not noticed any difference in tracking since the nerf. If you are not hitting, make sure your webbers are doing their jobs.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-04-10 11:06:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Rev is highly underrated tbh.
it's better for PVE than the nag IMO and it's much easier since it has by far the best cap.
Moros is still better DPS wise but not really by much if using T1 ammo and it has worse tank and a lot worse cap.

There is no Bob.

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RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#7 - 2014-04-10 12:42:25 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Rev is highly underrated tbh.
it's better for PVE than the nag IMO and it's much easier since it has by far the best cap.
Moros is still better DPS wise but not really by much if using T1 ammo and it has worse tank and a lot worse cap.



In case of suddenly pvp a nag would perform better than a rev, right ? ;)
For PvE i'd bet you say Rev is better for pve because of infinite ammo ? Damage projection of Nag is better though


(Don't underrate the pheonix too, it for sure will receive buffs during caprebalance and hopefully becomes more viable as it is right now)
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-04-10 12:59:26 UTC
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Rev is highly underrated tbh.
it's better for PVE than the nag IMO and it's much easier since it has by far the best cap.
Moros is still better DPS wise but not really by much if using T1 ammo and it has worse tank and a lot worse cap.

In case of suddenly pvp a nag would perform better than a rev, right ? ;)
For PvE i'd bet you say Rev is better for pve because of infinite ammo ? Damage projection of Nag is better though
(Don't underrate the pheonix too, it for sure will receive buffs during caprebalance and hopefully becomes more viable as it is right now)

if there's surprise PVP against your PVE fleet it's irrelevant.
damage projection is NOT better on a nag.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#9 - 2014-04-10 13:02:30 UTC
Moros Dread
Nag Dread
Rev Half a Dread
Phoenix not a Dread xD

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#10 - 2014-04-10 13:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: RcTamiya Leontis
Jack Miton wrote:
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Rev is highly underrated tbh.
it's better for PVE than the nag IMO and it's much easier since it has by far the best cap.
Moros is still better DPS wise but not really by much if using T1 ammo and it has worse tank and a lot worse cap.

In case of suddenly pvp a nag would perform better than a rev, right ? ;)
For PvE i'd bet you say Rev is better for pve because of infinite ammo ? Damage projection of Nag is better though
(Don't underrate the pheonix too, it for sure will receive buffs during caprebalance and hopefully becomes more viable as it is right now)

if there's surprise PVP against your PVE fleet it's irrelevant.
damage projection is NOT better on a nag.



As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there


*EDIT*
@ Alice:

You call a dread which can 1 shot any BS out there not a dread ? ;) Pheonix actually IS a danger to BS with the abiltiy of 1 shot them though (even heavy tanked bhaals get volled into low structure), it's more aquestion of supportfleet, fleet setup etc, keep in mind for example in pulsar your sig isn't that small .... ;)
However i for myself prefer Turretdps due to instantdamage
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
#11 - 2014-04-10 13:07:42 UTC
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:


As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there




I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said.
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-04-10 13:10:23 UTC
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:


As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there




I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said.




And by a wide margin.
RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#13 - 2014-04-10 13:11:34 UTC
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:


As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there




I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said.




Well i am rarely in dreads, expected a Nag with depleted Uranium track better than a rev though
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
#14 - 2014-04-10 13:18:01 UTC
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:


Well i am rarely in dreads, expected a Nag with depleted Uranium track better than a rev though


Ah I see now.
Damage projection actually means the range at which the damage can still be applied.
Le'Mon Tichim
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-04-10 13:19:41 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
Moros Dread
Nag Dread
Rev Half a Dread
Phoenix not a Dread xD


I recall seeing a stream of a player blapping things off the undock in null with a Phoenix. Hurricane, Moa, Drake...


I simply think we've been using the Phoenix wrong.

Can you hear them? They are calling to us. It is beautiful. http://thegreattichim.wordpress.com/
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#16 - 2014-04-10 13:21:31 UTC
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:


As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there




I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said.




Well i am rarely in dreads, expected a Nag with depleted Uranium track better than a rev though


That would be damage application not damage projection.

Application usually relates to tracking/signature.

Projection is range related.

Although you are correct that a Naglfar tracks better than a Rev. Although I am still glad I trained Amarr Dread 5 for that extra cap and 11k DPS Smile
RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#17 - 2014-04-10 13:33:21 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:


As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there




I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said.




Well i am rarely in dreads, expected a Nag with depleted Uranium track better than a rev though


That would be damage application not damage projection.

Application usually relates to tracking/signature.

Projection is range related.

Although you are correct that a Naglfar tracks better than a Rev. Although I am still glad I trained Amarr Dread 5 for that extra cap and 11k DPS Smile



Haha you just saved my day :D ye stuff like that may happen when beeing at work in eve forums not speaking your native language in a forum of your choice Cool

Thanks for clarification ^^"
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#18 - 2014-04-13 08:54:51 UTC
Rev has better projection, up to a certain point.

In this case we were talking about cap escalations. That means depending on how you run the sites, sleeper BS are normally at around 36-40km from the dreads. In other cases they are 0km-36km. 36km being their normal orbiting range.

As far as I can see the Nag and Moros far outstrip the Rev for applied DPS at those ranges with superior raw DPS, Tracking and flexibility.

That said having an all V Rev as 2nd dread is more than acceptable and of course if you have the face roll 10 dreads into a site then it really doesn't matter what dread you fly, except maybe phoenixes.

The difference between an all V Moros and all V Rev from personal experience is significant and while I have not had the pleasure of seeing an all V Nag in action, on paper it looks like it will perform similarly to a Moros with better projection.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#19 - 2014-04-13 10:32:12 UTC
According to my EFTWarrioring with 2 paints and 2 webs against a Battleship, a Phoenix will do much more damage below 20kms, then the Moros takes over and does the most damage until about 33kms, where the Naglfar takes over. Then the Revelation outdamages everything past 40kms.

Anize Oramara wrote:
Rev has better projection, up to a certain point.


No, the Revelation has better projection after a certain point. That point being 40kms, and it is a VERY large advantage out past 60kms, effectively doubling the DPS of the next closest Dreadnought (the Naglfar).

Anize Oramara wrote:
In this case we were talking about cap escalations. That means depending on how you run the sites, sleeper BS are normally at around 36-40km from the dreads. In other cases they are 0km-36km. 36km being their normal orbiting range.

As far as I can see the Nag and Moros far outstrip the Rev for applied DPS at those ranges with superior raw DPS, Tracking and flexibility.


Interestingly, the cross-over point where all the dreads do about the same damage is 38kms. This changes when you add tracking into the equation, with the Phoenix being best until 25kms, where the moros takes over and doens't stop being better until about 60kms... but EFT is doing something weird and is telling me that the Revelation ahs better tracking than a Naglfar, so I'm not sure if I should trust this bit...

Anize Oramara wrote:
That said having an all V Rev as 2nd dread is more than acceptable and of course if you have the face roll 10 dreads into a site then it really doesn't matter what dread you fly, except maybe phoenixes.

The difference between an all V Moros and all V Rev from personal experience is significant and while I have not had the pleasure of seeing an all V Nag in action, on paper it looks like it will perform similarly to a Moros with better projection.


If you have a choice, you should use the Revelation as first dread (or a Phoenix if in a Pulsar, yeah I said it) and then Moroses for all other dreads. The exception of course is if you're only doing one wave of sleepers at a time, in which case you just use Moroses and call it done.

Having said that though, all the dreads can blap sleepers pretty well (if you can believe EFT) and it shouldn't really matter which one you use, they'll still convert sleepers into wrecks.
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#20 - 2014-04-13 11:07:56 UTC
The Revelation is the worst of the shield tankers. Sad

Although in a wolf-rayet it can get a pretty nice tank when pimp is applied. Big smile

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