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CSM voting is not a democratical process

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Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
#41 - 2014-04-10 07:50:06 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Still more Democratic than the USA, or China, or Crimea.

Crimea seem to be the only democracy in the list...
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#42 - 2014-04-10 08:29:45 UTC
...feed them to the lions!

Empire, the next new world order.
Solecist Project
#43 - 2014-04-10 09:09:34 UTC
**** democracy.

There. I said it and I mean it.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Rhiannon Marius
Marius Family Enterprises Unlimited
#44 - 2014-04-10 09:18:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tell me I'm not the only who chuckled at "democratical".


I was about to say there is no such word when I read the title. Your response was better.
Josef Djugashvilis
#45 - 2014-04-10 10:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Malcanis wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
.
CSM, like the forums, is a way for whiny dingbats to let off steam...


I would never refer to the voters like that...





...if I were seeking re-election.


Why?

For many of us forum warriors it is a fair description. Sad

This is not a signature.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-04-10 10:47:49 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Muestereate wrote:
... We are raised to take responsibility for our choices and yield our unique identities to society and superiors from the age of two and rebel into adulthood. Once we achieve adulthood we are given a vote and out rebellion stops. We are tamed. ....


lol@unique identities
Dude i'm 44, i AM the authority now in my chosen field.


Welfare cheating?


Nah, Taekwondo. Technical board for my state and referee at national olympic selections.
But teaching is my focus, i teach instructors.
Welfare cheating huh? You....really didn't think a lot about that post did you?


Lol spaec politiks.




I've found that when someone claims to be a professional in some sort of field, assuming that they are a professional at leeching welfare is accurate 9 times out of 10.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-04-10 12:05:33 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
..

I've found that when someone claims to be a professional in some sort of field, assuming that they are a professional at leeching welfare is accurate 9 times out of 10.


That really is a strange thing to say.
You probably think professional means when someone gets paid for it. Actually it has to do with a body of knowledge.
As for the leeching welfare crack, looks like you need to meet more adults, or get off the internet. In any case, it's a non sequitur as i said i was the authority in my field and didn't mention being a professional.
Think before posting champ.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-04-10 12:09:41 UTC
It makes sense. It gives more votes to players who should have bigger experience and/or wider area of interest. High sec mission runner will vote based on his bias, and will not likely vote for a guy that wants to "re-vitalize" WH.

A guy who has a mission runner and a wormhole main will know what he wants better.

Also - people who care more are given more votes. So come on - what's the problem?

I have issues with this democracy model because recently a CSM member personally attacked a scammer and got away with it. It's abuse of position (if not power). Other CSM member said he/she doesn't publicize his/her views because of fear of leaking some confidential info from CCP. Come on - this is what I think CSM is for. For telling us what CCP plans for and telling CCP what we want. I would love to see monthly bulletin of leaks delivered to my eve mail ever first Wednesday of the month at 9 a.m. I would even eagerly go for rumor mongering as long as it relates to my superuberprecious drone boats.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
Tosawa Komarui
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-04-10 12:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tosawa Komarui
Cheng Musana wrote:
I might not playing this game like some other people but are im not the only one who thinks that people with multiple accounts should not get multiple chances to vote? For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it. Only because people are willing to pay more should not allow them to outweight the opinions from others. In the real world i aswell have only 1 vote regardless if im rich, middle class or poor. Everybody gets only 1 voice which they can use.

I know that some people are taking this "imersion thing" more serious and probs claim that each of their accounts has a individual personality. But in reality its just 1 guy stuffing burritos in his mouth watching over 6 monitors.


im pretty sure this is not the case, since i only got one vote even if i logged on with a second account P

(the vote area indicated i had already "voted", even when i switched accounts)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#50 - 2014-04-10 12:21:09 UTC
mynnna wrote:
What are you kidding? "Pay more and you get a louder voice" is EXACTLY how it works in real life.



Well, in the US anyway. Straight

The best government is one you can buy Evil

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-04-10 12:29:02 UTC
I'm from the Far West Suburbs of Chicago and have been trying to get CCP to allow my banned alt a chance to vote...just like a Chicago Democrat.

"My father was a lifelong Republican and voted straight party line all his life. He passed away a couple decades ago, and he has been voting straight Democrat ever since..."
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#52 - 2014-04-10 16:24:42 UTC
Tosawa Komarui wrote:
Cheng Musana wrote:
I might not playing this game like some other people but are im not the only one who thinks that people with multiple accounts should not get multiple chances to vote? For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it. Only because people are willing to pay more should not allow them to outweight the opinions from others. In the real world i aswell have only 1 vote regardless if im rich, middle class or poor. Everybody gets only 1 voice which they can use.

I know that some people are taking this "imersion thing" more serious and probs claim that each of their accounts has a individual personality. But in reality its just 1 guy stuffing burritos in his mouth watching over 6 monitors.


im pretty sure this is not the case, since i only got one vote even if i logged on with a second account P

(the vote area indicated i had already "voted", even when i switched accounts)

Then you did it wrong.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#53 - 2014-04-10 16:42:29 UTC
Cheng Musana wrote:
I might not playing this game like some other people but are im not the only one who thinks that people with multiple accounts should not get multiple chances to vote? For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it. Only because people are willing to pay more should not allow them to outweight the opinions from others. In the real world i aswell have only 1 vote regardless if im rich, middle class or poor. Everybody gets only 1 voice which they can use.

I know that some people are taking this "imersion thing" more serious and probs claim that each of their accounts has a individual personality. But in reality its just 1 guy stuffing burritos in his mouth watching over 6 monitors.




If a player with multiple accounts is making multiple votes, are we to deny that, given they have more investment in the game, they should get more votes?

If it were up to me (TM) I would have it that even RL voting would be weighted by how much taxes a person pays. Do people who don't play this game by not having a sub get to vote? No. People who don't pay taxes should not get to vote.

And people who pay more into a system should have a vote that is "heavier".

So this not being a "democratized" process is actually a good thing. Democracy is a failure. Collectivistic universal suffrage is a failure. I can tell you stories.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#54 - 2014-04-10 17:02:16 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

If it were up to me (TM) I would have it that even RL voting would be weighted by how much taxes a person pays.


Percentage of income rather than actual $ figure, right?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#55 - 2014-04-10 17:12:03 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
First off, I would imagine it would be near impossible to be able to accurately link the thousands of eve accounts to their RL owners.

Second, Say I have 10 accounts and you have 1. I am generating 10x the revenue for CCP than you. Why shouldin't I get 10x the voting power?

Would also be dangerous. Wouldn’t want goonies to know about all their spies they have. That information would be available to all the wrong people.
Jai Centarium
Anqara Expeditions
#56 - 2014-04-10 17:26:58 UTC
CSM is the best democratical process money can buy.

See, Iceland, you learned something from America. Next up: In-game Rascal scooters.

Certified purveyor of the High Life.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2014-04-10 17:28:39 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I would never refer to the voters like that...

...if I were seeking re-election.

Why?

For many of us form warriors it is a fair description. Sad

That's exactly why you should stay away from it.
Elections and truth rarely mix well. P
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#58 - 2014-04-10 17:30:47 UTC
Cheng Musana wrote:
I might not playing this game like some other people but are im not the only one who thinks that people with multiple accounts should not get multiple chances to vote? For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it. Only because people are willing to pay more should not allow them to outweight the opinions from others. In the real world i aswell have only 1 vote regardless if im rich, middle class or poor. Everybody gets only 1 voice which they can use.

I know that some people are taking this "imersion thing" more serious and probs claim that each of their accounts has a individual personality. But in reality its just 1 guy stuffing burritos in his mouth watching over 6 monitors.


Actually the rich do have more "votes" in real life too. It is called lobbying / bribery.
Jarvin Spoo
Clandestine Management Group
#59 - 2014-04-10 18:07:19 UTC
Rowells wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
First off, I would imagine it would be near impossible to be able to accurately link the thousands of eve accounts to their RL owners.

Second, Say I have 10 accounts and you have 1. I am generating 10x the revenue for CCP than you. Why shouldin't I get 10x the voting power?


There is precedent for this. It's similar to why the USA has The House of Representatives which is based off population.

of course you got the amarr always trying to pull the 3/5 compromise with the rest of the empires


Classic reply! You just won this thread. ;)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#60 - 2014-04-10 18:10:53 UTC
mynnna wrote:
What are you kidding? "Pay more and you get a louder voice" is EXACTLY how it works in real life.



Well, in the US anyway. Straight



Heh - if people who didn't pay any taxes (and even GOT money too) didn't vote, would we be as screwed now?


I would rather not see the CSM become another poverty-pimping congress.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!