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Semi-serious proposal

First post
Author
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#1 - 2014-04-05 08:07:21 UTC
This is a proposal to immediately change 50% of highsec systems in to lowsec systems.

Because highsec is too large and it makes no sense to be.

I don't believe in the vision of Seagull changing this stagnant beast. So I propose affirmative action now.

benefits are more affirmative interaction between players especially mission runners and miners/haulers

Currently lowsec is barren except for those who want to fight - which is fair enough, but EVE is not supposed to be a safe universe. I don't believe in whelping a couple hundred million isk just to kill 1 guy who by all accounts is only abusing highsec to keep himself self in an environment where his ship doesn't belong.
Tyrant Scorn
#2 - 2014-04-05 14:36:35 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
This is a proposal to immediately change 50% of highsec systems in to lowsec systems.

Because highsec is too large and it makes no sense to be.

I don't believe in the vision of Seagull changing this stagnant beast. So I propose affirmative action now.

benefits are more affirmative interaction between players especially mission runners and miners/haulers

Currently lowsec is barren except for those who want to fight - which is fair enough, but EVE is not supposed to be a safe universe. I don't believe in whelping a couple hundred million isk just to kill 1 guy who by all accounts is only abusing highsec to keep himself self in an environment where his ship doesn't belong.


Come to HED and we'll have that talk again...
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2014-04-05 18:01:51 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
This is a proposal to immediately change 50% of highsec systems in to lowsec systems.

Because highsec is too large and it makes no sense to be.

I don't believe in the vision of Seagull changing this stagnant beast. So I propose affirmative action now.

benefits are more affirmative interaction between players especially mission runners and miners/haulers

Currently lowsec is barren except for those who want to fight - which is fair enough, but EVE is not supposed to be a safe universe. I don't believe in whelping a couple hundred million isk just to kill 1 guy who by all accounts is only abusing highsec to keep himself self in an environment where his ship doesn't belong.



You know what the net effect of this would be?

The people who don't go outside of highsec, would continue to not go outside of highsec, just clustering up in the remaining systems.

Problems with lowsec don't stem from it being too small in comparison with other places. They stem for a lack of incentive to go there, in comparison to other places.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2014-04-05 20:39:19 UTC
Just to expand on what I was meaning:

Move L4s to low, and you'll see a lot less L4s being done. Because it's not really worth it in a risk/reward sense.

What you'd need to do, as far as I can see, is add a new content type to lowsec, which is limited in how many times per day that you can do it. That way it can be worth the risk of losing your ship, while reducing the chance of it being farmed.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Esha Amphal
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-04-05 20:46:11 UTC
This would be a drastic blow to hi-sec playstyles that have been cultivated for over a decade now. You'd be taking a sledgehammer to a problem that requires tweezers.

Not only would this annoy hi-seccers intensely - who would see it as nothing more than an eviction notice and they would leave in droves to the remaining half of hi-sec, I honestly doubt that lo-seccers would gain anything apart from more 'barren' space as you put it. Lo-sec issues remain as is, no good fights are acquired whatsoever and we'd have a few eventful days reminiscent of Burn Jita as carebears figure out wtf is going on.

Hello popcorn and subscriber loss.

Anyway, your objective is pure. The means of achieving it will be largely different imo.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-04-06 00:35:29 UTC
Man when even I say this is a bad idea that won't actually do what you hope it will (by the way, this is a bad idea that won't actually do what you hope it will) you gotta know you're wrong.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#7 - 2014-04-08 04:07:53 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Just to expand on what I was meaning:

Move L4s to low, and you'll see a lot less L4s being done. Because it's not really worth it in a risk/reward sense.

What you'd need to do, as far as I can see, is add a new content type to lowsec, which is limited in how many times per day that you can do it. That way it can be worth the risk of losing your ship, while reducing the chance of it being farmed.


I'd go the opposite - higher income, more sustainable practices that have longer-than-highsec completion times.

Since highsec people want stability they can have it. The biggest risk in lowsec from my own experience is not randoms in AFs catching you, it's cloaky T3's running the sites and leaving them open so they don't respawn.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#8 - 2014-04-08 04:15:59 UTC
Esha Amphal wrote:
This would be a drastic blow to hi-sec playstyles that have been cultivated for over a decade now. You'd be taking a sledgehammer to a problem that requires tweezers.

Not only would this annoy hi-seccers intensely - who would see it as nothing more than an eviction notice and they would leave in droves to the remaining half of hi-sec, I honestly doubt that lo-seccers would gain anything apart from more 'barren' space as you put it. Lo-sec issues remain as is, no good fights are acquired whatsoever and we'd have a few eventful days reminiscent of Burn Jita as carebears figure out wtf is going on.

Hello popcorn and subscriber loss.

Anyway, your objective is pure. The means of achieving it will be largely different imo.


I have been on/off writing a manifesto for low-sec. Got some more things to work out before I release a draft.

My key issues with lowsec as an area are:

lack of motivation to hold territory - due to NPC stations and gateguns OR the lack of bubbling mechanics.
Escalation is too easy and too hard to counter - titans and supers don't belong in lowsec, period. What began in sov must stay there.
low income generally - ratting and scanning activity is too hit&miss relative to other areas of the game UNLESS you're in a t3 which makes everything ez mode.
FW - another dead horse topic, a necessary evil and some of those mechanics should be transposed on to other lowsec areas including sovlite ie greater spawns or high reprocessin yield for example.

And many more issues.

Lowsec isn't for newbies, show me an average lowsec battle that is so derivative in structure as drone-assign warfare and super blobs. Most lowsec activity occurs at BC or lower ship types. Lowsec is an end game in and of itself and is in many ways objectively less safe for victim and aggressor than nullsec or WH space.
Esha Amphal
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-04-08 20:28:17 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
I have been on/off writing a manifesto for low-sec. Got some more things to work out before I release a draft.


I'd be quite interested in a look-see at that manifesto, when you feel it's up to speed of course. Be sure to pitch a link for it directly to FunkyBacon and Sugar Kyle as well. Well thought through identification of issues and creative solutions to those are worth putting out there.

Halving high security space sounds like a snap decision born of frustration, but if you've sat down and considered low sec from all angles, detected the pain points, thought of solutions to those pain points and considered from all angles how those solutions will affect the game... because it's all inter-connected... I'd read that in a heartbeat.
Einear Lightfingers
Outer Rim Oreworks Company
Galactic Republic Alliance
#10 - 2014-04-08 23:44:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Einear Lightfingers
I met CCP Seagull in person last year at Fanfest and the CEO Dinner and she does not strike me as an individual who wouldn't listen to reason. Putting her name to support your proposal is wrong on many fronts but mostly in understanding her view on changing the stagnant beast.

* First - the original 3 types of space, now 4 when you add WH to the mix, but the original 3 have really for the most part not changed in years. Sure there have been changes in the anomalies and the true sec but nothing that has caused a real deviation from the 3 types intended purpose.

* Second - The attacks that High Sec. is bloated and too secure for a weak player base is utter BS. I will site the argument that in low and null everyone in local is a threat and their sec status typically announces it. In high sec. the carebear yesterday might be your suicide ganker today.

CCP does not need to trim high sec. or penalize its players, they have done a significant amount of that over the years without needing to take more. Generally, CCP needs to realize that there are more then one type of player base in their sandbox. Once they can come to grips with the fact that we do not all come here to shoot each other they can move to trying to balance the game as originally intended.

I wanted to try to list out the multitude of player types but found that most do not fit in to one category or another alone and in may case cross the line in to multiple areas. It is more important that CCP understand its user population and treat them all with the same respect so that the rest of EVE can understand that EVE is not just a lowsec null sec conflict.

Please feel free to contact me to discuss this further. Thank you.

Regards,

Einear
Choc talar
Blazing Capsules
Brave Collective
#11 - 2014-04-10 06:02:48 UTC
Like many have already stated the problem isn't High Sec its Low Sec. The incentive to move to Low sec just isn't there. Stations are few and far between, and as any Wh dweller knows living out of a POS is doable but right now terrible. If they ever roll out better POS mechanics (i.e. POS's you can actually dock in) and make them more modular I could see many corps making Low sec a more permanent home.

There doesn't need to be SOV mechanics like Null, it would be more of a hold it and keep it. Fly through Low sec sometime and see how utterly empty it is. I have flown around many parts of low and not seen a single toon in the systems that are off the beaten path. Low sec is plenty big, there just needs to be a better mechanic for making low sec space livable. As it stands right now there is absolutely no reason to live and play in low sec, and that is sad because it should be a place where lots of small gang fleet PvP happens as people fight to actually protect the systems they choose to call home.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#12 - 2014-04-10 08:54:51 UTC
Hello friend. Khanid is one of the quietest parts of low and it sees plenty of action.

You're absolutely right that lowsec is intrinsically the issue but for the problem of that while it remains unused it will never get the attention it needs.

Black rise was once a ghost town. Fw rebalance came and now it is populous. We can do more and go further. With competition for highsec materials increased that natural course of action is to have people move away.

Finally with a 92% subscriber loss rate CCP could afford to be more creative with their game sometimes.
Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-04-10 21:03:43 UTC
I would like to see a Sec status rebalance of the entire map TBH.

At the moment deep null is very safe due to people not wanting to go out there to roam through 10's of jumps of empty space and BLOPs not reaching out that far. The result is that most of the isk accumulation is in deep null. CCP wants to nerf all null sec income but they should be targeting these deep 0.0 systems that are bubbled to hell and back since that's where the isk is being made without interference by Botters and renters. Buff Shallow 0.0 because atm it sucks and is much more dangerous. In a -0.2 system you get 5 possible sites that people can be ratting in to make a decent level of income, the others are just trash and you'd be better running missions in high sec. When you go into a deep null there are havens, sanctums, hubs, forsaken hubs, forsaken rally points and often multiple of them making it near impossible to catch any ratters on a run through, if you aren't running with inties it's impossible because 60KM gate bubbles. If CCP is serious about fixing null sec the amount of quality anoms in high end systems must be nerfed to disperse ratting out of a handful of bubbled dead end systems into the entire region.