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CSM voting is not a democratical process

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Muestereate
Minions LLC
#21 - 2014-04-10 04:11:53 UTC
Get with it. Money rules the universe, democracy is a smokescreen. it is not a method of self rule but in fact a method of self subjugation. Example: Two parties want to exploit you, they fight one wins, your exploited. Since you had no say in the matter you cry totalitarian or dictator and soon have a revolt. second example: two parties want to exploit you, you vote, one wins, your exploited. Since you had a say in the matter, you subjugate yourself since it was choice you made. We are raised to take responsibility for our choices and yield our unique identities to society and superiors from the age of two and rebel into adulthood. Once we achieve adulthood we are given a vote and out rebellion stops. We are tamed. CSM and its vote are just methods useed to control rebelion and dissent. We vote for it, when it goes to pot its our fault. Just grin and BEAR it and grind.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-04-10 04:19:29 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Doesn't change the fact that a player with 10 accounts at least generates 10x the revenue "demand" (maybe a more accurate portrayal) than the player with 1 account.


BS, though "partially correct" is still much better than totally wrong. It generates 10x the subscription revenue, given that both players being compared pay for their subscription the same way. That's it. Nothing further.

Outside that, it has no bearing on total revenue, which is not dependent on the number of accounts a player owns.

This is starting to go off topic into revenue as opposed to the "non-democratic" process around the CSM voting, so perhaps a different thread is the way to go rather than we take it totally off topic. Happy to keep discussing economics though.


Again not really correct. It is irrelevant how people pay for their subscription (aside from the minor fluctuations of course in prices from 1 month to 1 year subs etc). The relevant point is that there are no free subscriptions. They are all paid for somehow.


There are really only 2 uses for PLEX. Subscription services and vanity items. The primary reason the ALOD player could buy his pimp Raven with PLEX is because for every PLEX he bought with $$$, there was someone else on the other end willing to give him isk to use that PLEX (primarily for their subscription). It's not like CCP prints isk out of thin air for people buying PLEX.

It still doesn't change the fact that my 10 accounts (I don't actually have 10, thats crazy) represent 10 subscriptions vs someone elses 1 account which represents 1 subscription.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#23 - 2014-04-10 04:24:13 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
It still doesn't change the fact that my 10 accounts (I don't actually have 10, thats crazy) represent 10 subscriptions vs someone elses 1 account which represents 1 subscription.
Subscription, yes. That's what I've already written.

Revenue, no.

But this is not the thread. If you want to go into the economics of revnue associated with accounts, then open a thread and we can discuss it. This isn't the thread for that, but "subscription" as opposed to "revenue" is perfect. Don't change from that because that aspect is correct.
Lady Areola Fappington
#24 - 2014-04-10 04:24:49 UTC
Endovior wrote:

Yes, and?

The CSM aren't a political authority, they're an advisory panel. They are intended to give CCP advice that reflects the opinions of their subscriber base. Accordingly BobTheMiner, with his twelve mining characters, constitutes twelve times as much customer as you do. Given that the CSM voting system now explicitly takes your session cookie and copies your voting list when you login between accounts, it's clear that CCP are explicitly supporting the many accounts, many votes model.

It's their advisory panel, and they care about Bob's opinions twelve times more than they do yours, because Bob gives them twelve times as much money. That's why Bob gets twelve votes, and you get one.



CSM is basically a focus group. I've always been impressed that CCP was able to take something that other companies have to pay people to do, and turn it into something EVE players will fiercely compete to be a part of.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Kyperion
#25 - 2014-04-10 04:33:36 UTC
Cheng Musana wrote:
I might not playing this game like some other people but are im not the only one who thinks that people with multiple accounts should not get multiple chances to vote? For example some one with 3 accounts can vote 3 times though its just in fact 1 choice from a single person behind it. Only because people are willing to pay more should not allow them to outweight the opinions from others. In the real world i aswell have only 1 vote regardless if im rich, middle class or poor. Everybody gets only 1 voice which they can use.

I know that some people are taking this "imersion thing" more serious and probs claim that each of their accounts has a individual personality. But in reality its just 1 guy stuffing burritos in his mouth watching over 6 monitors.

Who gives a flying **** about 'Democracy' ....its a Representative Republic you want anyway.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-04-10 04:40:38 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
It still doesn't change the fact that my 10 accounts (I don't actually have 10, thats crazy) represent 10 subscriptions vs someone elses 1 account which represents 1 subscription.
Subscription, yes. That's what I've already written.

Revenue, no.

But this is not the thread. If you want to go into the economics of revnue associated with accounts, then open a thread and we can discuss it. This isn't the thread for that, but "subscription" as opposed to "revenue" is perfect. Don't change from that because that aspect is correct.


Yea whatever. It wasn't a goal to nitpick semantics. All I was talking about was subscriptions and hence subscription revenue. Active subscriptions is really the only accurate measure CCP can use for votes in this case.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-04-10 05:03:45 UTC
Muestereate wrote:
... We are raised to take responsibility for our choices and yield our unique identities to society and superiors from the age of two and rebel into adulthood. Once we achieve adulthood we are given a vote and out rebellion stops. We are tamed. ....


lol@unique identities
Dude i'm 44, i AM the authority now in my chosen field. Rebellion is just the unauthorised desire to be in a position of authority.
Adulthood doesn't stop rebellion, plenty of grownup rebels the world over. Passively resisting a system that feeds and beats you is for rich idiots though.
CSM, like the forums, is a way for whiny dingbats to let off steam. Your post about the nature of life from the viewpoint of a schoolboy is exactly that.
Rebellion, pixels, please.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-04-10 05:23:50 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Muestereate wrote:
... We are raised to take responsibility for our choices and yield our unique identities to society and superiors from the age of two and rebel into adulthood. Once we achieve adulthood we are given a vote and out rebellion stops. We are tamed. ....


lol@unique identities
Dude i'm 44, i AM the authority now in my chosen field.


Welfare cheating?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-04-10 05:51:50 UTC
What are you kidding? "Pay more and you get a louder voice" is EXACTLY how it works in real life.



Well, in the US anyway. Straight

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#30 - 2014-04-10 05:55:45 UTC
I predict a record turnout this year of 112%.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-04-10 05:56:14 UTC
mynnna wrote:
What are you kidding? "Pay more and you get a louder voice" is EXACTLY how it works in real life.



Well, in the US anyway. Straight

government says money IS speech
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#32 - 2014-04-10 05:58:35 UTC
Eve isn't a fair place.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#33 - 2014-04-10 06:00:06 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Endovior wrote:

Yes, and?

The CSM aren't a political authority, they're an advisory panel. They are intended to give CCP advice that reflects the opinions of their subscriber base. Accordingly BobTheMiner, with his twelve mining characters, constitutes twelve times as much customer as you do. Given that the CSM voting system now explicitly takes your session cookie and copies your voting list when you login between accounts, it's clear that CCP are explicitly supporting the many accounts, many votes model.

It's their advisory panel, and they care about Bob's opinions twelve times more than they do yours, because Bob gives them twelve times as much money. That's why Bob gets twelve votes, and you get one.



CSM is basically a focus group. I've always been impressed that CCP was able to take something that other companies have to pay people to do, and turn it into something EVE players will fiercely compete to be a part of.


"Crowd Control Productions".
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#34 - 2014-04-10 06:03:30 UTC
DemocRADICAL! *Puts on sunglasses and rollerblades to the voting machines while playing airguitar* (on all 4 accounts)
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2014-04-10 06:16:50 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
DemocRADICAL! *Puts on sunglasses and rollerblades to the voting machines while playing airguitar* (on all 4 accounts)


I like this.
Josef Djugashvilis
#36 - 2014-04-10 06:19:56 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
First off, I would imagine it would be near impossible to be able to accurately link the thousands of eve accounts to their RL owners.

Second, Say I have 10 accounts and you have 1. I am generating 10x the revenue for CCP than you. Why shouldin't I get 10x the voting power?


Sounds suspiciously like the US of A voting system Sad

This is not a signature.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-04-10 06:26:49 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Muestereate wrote:
... We are raised to take responsibility for our choices and yield our unique identities to society and superiors from the age of two and rebel into adulthood. Once we achieve adulthood we are given a vote and out rebellion stops. We are tamed. ....


lol@unique identities
Dude i'm 44, i AM the authority now in my chosen field.


Welfare cheating?


Nah, Taekwondo. Technical board for my state and referee at national olympic selections.
But teaching is my focus, i teach instructors.
Welfare cheating huh? You....really didn't think a lot about that post did you?


Lol spaec politiks.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Captain Stupid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-04-10 06:28:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tell me I'm not the only who chuckled at "democratical".


No, I chuckled too.

Also, I think I might be the first to say, I don't care about the csm. It is pointless.
Qen Tye
In Between
#39 - 2014-04-10 07:02:53 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
CSM is basically a focus group. I've always been impressed that CCP was able to take something that other companies have to pay people to do, and turn it into something EVE players will fiercely compete to be a part of.

That is an accomplishment in itself.

If I have understood the CSM concept correctly, is it a group of players, that at best can advice CCP to change things=focus group; yes?

And people really get fired up over this!?!?

o.0
/puzzled
/waitwhat
/wtflol

Q.T.

Two possibilities exists: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.

  • Arthur C. Clarke
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#40 - 2014-04-10 07:44:05 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
.
CSM, like the forums, is a way for whiny dingbats to let off steam...


I would never refer to the voters like that...





...if I were seeking re-election.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016