These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The new skins are not what players asked for...

First post
Author
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-04-09 20:48:53 UTC
Doireen Kaundur wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
I am ultra familiar with minimum viable products, but is that really a rationalization for why so many of the released designs look like ass?


Out of curiosity, what designs would you want? Flame blue? Pin stripes? Bumble bee?



You have a limited imagination. Let the artists take over this job, instead of the coders.


You didn't answer the question.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#22 - 2014-04-09 20:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
Also someone missed the part explaining that as it is there are no such things as "ship skins" as far as database is concerned.
Those paint jobs are each a new ship type on it self, not just some new skins slapped on some random Hyperions.

To actually make those "skins" to what are meant by "skins" in those other games they have to make an entirely new code for it and that takes plenty of dev time, actually so much that they need to be absolutely sure that players want and buy the new ship skins (preferably with top $$ via PLEX).
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#23 - 2014-04-09 20:51:57 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
I am ultra familiar with minimum viable products, but is that really a rationalization for why so many of the released designs look like ass?


Other than the gallente ships, i quite like the designs. Everyone has different tastes so try to atleast say that you think they look bad instead of just saying: they're bad ;)
Doireen Kaundur
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-04-09 20:57:43 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Also someone missed the part explaining that as it is there are no such things as "ship skins" as far as database is concerned.
Those paint jobs are each a new ship type on it self, not just some new skins slapped on some random Hyperions.

To actually make those "skins" to what are meant by "skins" in those other games they have to make an entirely new code for it and that takes plenty of dev time, actually so much that they need to be absolutely sure that players want and buy the new ship skins (preferably with top $$ via PLEX).



Actually all lyou are doing is changing the texture. The ship code already exists. Yes, each texture change requires its own ship, but it shouldnt take as long as you say. You are just duplicating ships but with different textures.

_[center]For your Freighter **sized shipping needs, contact _[u]Lord Chanlin[/u].** _ Fast, affordable, reliable service._

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Lord%20Chanlin[/center]

Tarpedo
Incursionista
#25 - 2014-04-09 20:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarpedo
I'm not surprised with rusty skins: dear CCP are masters of content nobody was asking for + I'm sure they have much better skins but planned to sell them for more than couple bucks and just afraid (after monoclegeddon) to post expensive items in the cash shop without slowly boiling the frog beforehand.

So just wait few months for new skins in next expansion (I think it'll have "Pimp my spaceship" title).
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures
#26 - 2014-04-09 21:06:12 UTC
Ev3rM0r3 wrote:
whining


My Hyperion is sexy now. What are you crying about?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#27 - 2014-04-09 21:07:58 UTC
Doireen Kaundur wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
As already stated, the ship painting/skins are a pilot program. You do know what the definition of 'pilot program' is right?

Its business speak for alpha test.

Essentually, they looked at used ships and decided to pick a few and see if players are even remotely interested in skins. If they have a few ships and crappy skins but player buy and use them and the crappy mechanic, then the guy in charge can take the numbers to the big wigs at CCP and go 'look, we wanted to hit a goal of xxx sold, we hit yyy! The players want this, even in this design, so can we have money to actually make it work? And based on our projections this will give ccp XXX profit.." Then the big wigs go "do it" or "no no money, wait longer" or "no scrap the entire idea"

This is why you did not see a new mechanic and it fully turned on. If no one used it, you would of seen people having a **** storm about wasted dev time. This was the fastest and easiest way to implement and prolly took a hew hours to do it, as oppose to weeks or months, all the while if it failed, then joe blow player can't go 'wait you wasted 6 months on this crap? you could used that 6 months to fix xxx! what the hell are you think ccp'

Understand? If you want more skins buy or use the ones we have now. Show them there is demand. People ask for this, but how many people, 100? 1000? that's not a lot when you have 500k or so accounts. But if that is shown to be 100k accounts buying the skins... then there is justification in doing a full blow feature.



I respectfully disagree. You dont see if a new 3 course meal will be a hit by just serving the appetizer.

I hate all the new skins, but would still want to paint my ship.


That's because food is a terrible analogy for your point because no one in the food industry does that anyway. It's however VERY common in technology industries in both hardware and software. It's just that most of the time this process of trying out ****** versions tends to happen at the internal level before you see it as a product or it's tested by a special user group, but even those sorts of things are becoming less common, especially for something new.

But here's something that you also need to understand. The technology world is founded on and its back is made out of innovation. Even if A isn't new, and nor is B, putting them together to make C is. Or maybe they're making A and B from scratch. The point is, because technology is based on making something new it's hard for business men to gauge it. How do you get the market value of a product over a 3 year period if it's never been done before?

Because of this the tech business world has a concept called "MVP", Minimum Viable Product. A lot of tech is expensive to do, especially in manpower where engineers command six figures of salary....and you need to hire multiple engineers...

Instead you scrape together what you can in small investments make a pretty ****** MVP (but one that still make use of your primary feature or technology), and start selling it. You then take this revenue and feed to back into development and use it as justification for larger investment to expand, get better customer service, improve design, adding features, etc.

This is why we're seeing more games showing up as paid early access on steam and why betas involving money are more prevalent. Budding development companies need some revenue to show the investors "see, we made money, now fund us so we can hire more people and make more money". Or in some cases, like with Rust and certain KickStarter projects you get all the money you need from that MVP right off the bat and you throw it all into development.

In CCP's case they already have an established market so what they do is they roll out test versions of features, collect data for a few months to a year, and then iterate. This way they don't break anything too significant nor do they change game mechanics too drastically in the long run. An example of this is the removal of the hacking loot spew mechanic this summer (which will have had a lifetime of one year) and the second pass we had one T1 frigates and cruisers with 1.3 very recently (also a year since initial overhaul).

The Drake is a Lie

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-04-09 21:17:39 UTC
Doireen Kaundur wrote:
Baneken wrote:
Also someone missed the part explaining that as it is there are no such things as "ship skins" as far as database is concerned.
Those paint jobs are each a new ship type on it self, not just some new skins slapped on some random Hyperions.

To actually make those "skins" to what are meant by "skins" in those other games they have to make an entirely new code for it and that takes plenty of dev time, actually so much that they need to be absolutely sure that players want and buy the new ship skins (preferably with top $$ via PLEX).



Actually all lyou are doing is changing the texture. The ship code already exists. Yes, each texture change requires its own ship, but it shouldnt take as long as you say. You are just duplicating ships but with different textures.
Which is exactly what they don't want as a long term implementation. They don't want 50 different DB entries for the same ship with the same stats. I'd imagine there are several very good reasons for this, among which not completely ruining the market interface ranks pretty highly.
Doireen Kaundur
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-04-09 21:24:10 UTC
One short term soluton would have been to allow us to use the NPC ship skins. The code is already in place.

_[center]For your Freighter **sized shipping needs, contact _[u]Lord Chanlin[/u].** _ Fast, affordable, reliable service._

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Lord%20Chanlin[/center]

TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2014-04-09 21:30:35 UTC
Ev3rM0r3 wrote:
Every new ship you release furthers my disappointment. Who wants a rusty looking paint job on a ship? That's not what players had in mind, from all the picture posts and renders of custom ships and hell even ones I did, making it a rustic looking orange spatter is not what people had in mind. Painting your ship should be about you showing it off, showing a uniqueness, and making it look badass with several customizable skin options, none of this prefab paint job nonsense. They downright are ugly, or so dark its very un-distinguishable unless you are close up. CCP would it be so hard to take players advice as is for once instead of taking the idea and attempting to put just your own spin on the idea. You have these discussion forums up for a reason, use their advice as is.


IT. IS. A. TRIAL.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-04-09 21:31:36 UTC
Doireen Kaundur wrote:
One short term soluton would have been to allow us to use the NPC ship skins. The code is already in place.
Actually no, it isn't. Those are still entirely separate items so it's no easier to make player flyable versions of those than it is to make them of any previously created but not available skin. The steps of: Create new object > Clone old objects stats to it > Associate with different skin; are all the same.
Herzyr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-04-09 21:34:13 UTC
Who wants to spend money on a expensive skin that dies with the ship?

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-04-09 21:36:07 UTC
Herzyr wrote:
Who wants to spend money on a expensive skin that dies with the ship?
Someone who wants to die in style. I see it as being no different than expensive mods or rigs. Actually, I find it preferential to the mods since at least currently it can't drop.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#34 - 2014-04-09 21:39:49 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Out of curiosity, what designs would you want? Flame blue? Pin stripes? Bumble bee?

Sure. All of them. Stars and stripes. Plaid. Cherry Red.

Is it so hard to come out with decent looking straight blue, red, white and black skins?

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#35 - 2014-04-09 21:40:33 UTC
I want a hot-pink widow.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#36 - 2014-04-09 21:41:18 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Doireen Kaundur wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
I am ultra familiar with minimum viable products, but is that really a rationalization for why so many of the released designs look like ass?


Out of curiosity, what designs would you want? Flame blue? Pin stripes? Bumble bee?



You have a limited imagination. Let the artists take over this job, instead of the coders.


You didn't answer the question.

Because that is how aesthetics work. Not everyone is an artist, but everyone has a sense of what does and does not appeal to them when they see it.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-04-09 21:44:49 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Because that is how aesthetics work. Not everyone is an artist, but everyone has a sense of what does and does not appeal to them when they see it.
But general consensus has no bearing upon what you as an individual want to see, which was the question.
Doireen Kaundur
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-04-09 21:53:33 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
I want a hot-pink widow.



Craigslist?

_[center]For your Freighter **sized shipping needs, contact _[u]Lord Chanlin[/u].** _ Fast, affordable, reliable service._

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Lord%20Chanlin[/center]

PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#39 - 2014-04-09 21:57:20 UTC
Doireen Kaundur wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
I want a hot-pink widow.



Craigslist?

That would be RMT. Sad
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#40 - 2014-04-09 22:10:30 UTC
It is a trial. Vote with your wallet.