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Easy way to stop Super Capital proliferation

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Prince Sanguine
#41 - 2014-04-09 16:50:39 UTC
Stealth bring more miners to null thread

Everytime you read this you are required to send 100 million isk directly to me.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#42 - 2014-04-09 16:52:54 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Soon CCP is going to have tackle the thorny issue of rebalancing Supers and Titans.

Supers and Titans have received nothing but nerfs since there inception. I know many players who are on the verge quitting Eve and another nerf to Supers and Titans will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

For me the issue is not that they are too powerful, but they are too easy to build.

This is the reason why there are so many Supers and Titans in game now and why you can replace so many in just a few days.

So the solution for me is not to nerf them yet again but make them harder to build and increasing the minerals content will not work to stop this but a simple change will.

At the moment all you need to anchor a CSAA is the Strategic Index at 1 and the ihub upgrade Supercapital Construction Facilities.

Now if you change the requirement to Strategic Index 5 and Industry Index to 5 you are going to see a lot less Supers and Titans being built.

Not only will this increase the cost of buying a Super + Titan due to far less being built which will increase demand but it will also force Null Sec entities into enticing miners into null to order to get their Industry Index to 5 as well as make sure the system is not flipped in order not to lose the Strategic Index.

For me its a very simple change, something which CCP could do in just a few minutes and it would put a big dent in the ability to produce so many Supers and Titans as well as helping get more Industry people out into null.



I could go for this if the following changes were also implemented:

- Cloaks would require fuel to operate. A typical cloaking ship would burn through its fuel in a few minutes and need to reload its fuel.

- If the above is not acceptable then the owners of the system can build a structure that, when activated, will automatically decloak everyone in system.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#43 - 2014-04-09 16:56:11 UTC
From what I have seen, CCP has basically given up on stopping supercap proliferation. Instead they will probably keep nerfing them.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#44 - 2014-04-09 17:08:31 UTC
Industry index to 5 would be like a cyno beacon saying come here. :)
Prince Kobol
#45 - 2014-04-09 17:27:40 UTC
Muestereate wrote:
Industry index to 5 would be like a cyno beacon saying come here. :)


That is the point :)
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2014-04-09 17:30:56 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Supers and Titans have received nothing but nerfs since there inception. I know many players who are on the verge quitting Eve and another nerf to Supers and Titans will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

You do understand that those players leaving would be beneficial to the game, right?

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Prince Kobol
#47 - 2014-04-09 17:36:11 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Supers and Titans have received nothing but nerfs since there inception. I know many players who are on the verge quitting Eve and another nerf to Supers and Titans will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

You do understand that those players leaving would be beneficial to the game, right?


Such a poor troll, I will give you 2/10 Big smile
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2014-04-09 17:38:07 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Supers and Titans have received nothing but nerfs since there inception. I know many players who are on the verge quitting Eve and another nerf to Supers and Titans will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

You do understand that those players leaving would be beneficial to the game, right?


Such a poor troll, I will give you 2/10 Big smile

Not a troll. Self-identified ~supercap pilots~ are by far the worst population of players in the game.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#49 - 2014-04-09 17:39:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Prince Kobol wrote:
Soon CCP is going to have tackle the thorny issue of rebalancing Supers and Titans.

Supers and Titans have received nothing but nerfs since there inception. I know many players who are on the verge quitting Eve and another nerf to Supers and Titans will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

For me the issue is not that they are too powerful, but they are too easy to build.

This is the reason why there are so many Supers and Titans in game now and why you can replace so many in just a few days.

So the solution for me is not to nerf them yet again but make them harder to build and increasing the minerals content will not work to stop this but a simple change will.

At the moment all you need to anchor a CSAA is the Strategic Index at 1 and the ihub upgrade Supercapital Construction Facilities.

Now if you change the requirement to Strategic Index 5 and Industry Index to 5 you are going to see a lot less Supers and Titans being built.

Not only will this increase the cost of buying a Super + Titan due to far less being built which will increase demand but it will also force Null Sec entities into enticing miners into null to order to get their Industry Index to 5 as well as make sure the system is not flipped in order not to lose the Strategic Index.

For me its a very simple change, something which CCP could do in just a few minutes and it would put a big dent in the ability to produce so many Supers and Titans as well as helping get more Industry people out into null.



You need not take out a main battle tank if you can starve the crew to death.

If ALL resources were made FINITE - no more respawning roids, no more moons that endlessly churn out goo - that would be the end of production, save for salvage - and salvage would become just as important as mining.

Let it be that a system mined to death will run out permanent rocks and ice belts, and let a moon mined for so long run out.


There may still be supercap battles - and then there will be subcap battles for the salvage.

And there WILL Be battles, because the number one driver of all wars is limited resources. This "PVP game" with it's respawning neverending resources - it does not fit.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Prince Kobol
#50 - 2014-04-09 17:39:59 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Supers and Titans have received nothing but nerfs since there inception. I know many players who are on the verge quitting Eve and another nerf to Supers and Titans will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

You do understand that those players leaving would be beneficial to the game, right?


Such a poor troll, I will give you 2/10 Big smile

Not a troll. Self-identified ~supercap pilots~ are by far the worst population of players in the game.


Nah, that is the title I would give to Goons Big smile

Also I do not own any supers Big smile
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#51 - 2014-04-09 18:04:44 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Can you explain how a delay makes anything more difficult?

Because that's what you are asking for. A delay. They need to get to V first.

What's the increased difficulty here exactly?

My guess would be he is referring to time. Time to build the titans time to harvest the materials. You are correct when you say increasing the cost will do nothing because Bluesec has deep pockets.

Time is the only thing everyone has in common regardless of who you are and where you play. Time is constant in any equation.

BTW what happened to your other forum posting toon? Just opted for a gender change or did you earn a perma ban?
I don't have forum toons. I'm only me... and I'm kind of regretting having a female char.

I sold Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD and was busy with my grandma being in hospital.

You can ask google for verification, which will point at the charbazarr.

Anyhow... Infinity Ziona... hasn't changed one bit, I see. Obviously knows the game even better than CCP.

Bravo a very Nobel thing indeed. Not concerned enough about it to go digging, was just mere curiosity.

Hope you Grandmother is doing well since your back. Good luck with your new toon.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#52 - 2014-04-09 18:25:38 UTC
One benefit to linking it to activity indexes is that such activity can be disrupted (thus disrupting the build) shy of a massive CSAA timer fight. While not a perfect idea, it does raise an interesting concept that might be worth incorporating in some capacity.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#53 - 2014-04-09 18:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
OP is 100% right on the money here.

The problem isn't the power of the ships themselves, the problem is their proliferation.

I completely agree the solution should be centered around the quantity of ships on the field as opposed to nerfing the ships themselves and I have a feeling the misguided nerfing of the ships has only added to the problem of proliferation as now more of those ships are needed.

Stop solving the wrong problem. Make these ships as glorious as they should be, but just as rare as they need to be.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#54 - 2014-04-09 18:30:01 UTC
I really like this idea (tying it to Sov levels).

It's really good.

Unfortunately, there are already tons of caps in the game, and this idea while awesome is probably 3 years too late. Many of the major cap powers in the game already have caches built of carriers and dreads, I wouldn't be surprised if there was someone with a super cache as well.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Prince Kobol
#55 - 2014-04-09 19:17:17 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
I really like this idea (tying it to Sov levels).

It's really good.

Unfortunately, there are already tons of caps in the game, and this idea while awesome is probably 3 years too late. Many of the major cap powers in the game already have caches built of carriers and dreads, I wouldn't be surprised if there was someone with a super cache as well.


Unfortunately there is real way of solving that particular problem in regards to there already being ton of caps in existences however that should not stop some kind of change like this.

Carriers and dreads I do not see as that big of a problem, especially dreads as they are fairly easy to kill with subcaps.

The main issue is Supers and Titans.
Prince Kobol
#56 - 2014-04-09 19:18:31 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
OP is 100% right on the money here.

The problem isn't the power of the ships themselves, the problem is their proliferation.

I completely agree the solution should be centered around the quantity of ships on the field as opposed to nerfing the ships themselves and I have a feeling the misguided nerfing of the ships has only added to the problem of proliferation as now more of those ships are needed.

Stop solving the wrong problem. Make these ships as glorious as they should be, but just as rare as they need to be.


Yeah from the Super and Titan pilots I have spoken to many of them do fear that CCP is just going to go for the easy option and nerf them some more which is not the answer.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#57 - 2014-04-09 19:24:29 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Hi, my alliance has one of the largest super fleets in the game and we're blue to another alliance that has even more. I think it would be swell if supers were harder to acquire for everyone else.

Also, once that's done it would be grand if our supers were buffed to reflect the increased cost we didn't have to pay.


FTFY.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#58 - 2014-04-09 19:42:08 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
And not only that... you think that making it more costly equals making it more difficult!

ISK never has been a balancing factor, ever!

And you are completely forgetting that all the bigger entities are perfectly capable to influence mineral prices across all systems. They can make them go up or dow at will, simply because they have the manpower, influence and money to do so!

So even if it was superuberexpensive to build them and would even be more expensive than what even the goons can afford, all they'd need to do is influence the market enough to make mineral prices drop and then buy them up from the market as usual!

You think they can't do that? Hahahahahahaha okay!

"Isk is not a balancing factor" is the stupidest statement one can make regarding EvE. It's the ultimate balancing factor in EvE. Jubus ...


Not sure if trolling...

It works as a balancing factor on a small scale, but not at all on coalition level spending (ie. supers & titans)

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Prince Kobol
#59 - 2014-04-09 19:43:57 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Hi, my alliance has one of the largest super fleets in the game and we're blue to another alliance that has even more. I think it would be swell if supers were harder to acquire for everyone else.

Also, once that's done it would be grand if our supers were buffed to reflect the increased cost we didn't have to pay.


FTFY.



Lol...

As I have said, I do not own a Super.

Also pretty sure most people in alliance such as mine would hate this idea as it not only would push up the cost but also make it a lot harder to get Supers for those who do not have them and for those who lose them.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#60 - 2014-04-09 19:55:11 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Hi, my alliance has one of the largest super fleets in the game and we're blue to another alliance that has even more. I think it would be swell if supers were harder to acquire for everyone else.

Also, once that's done it would be grand if our supers were buffed to reflect the increased cost we didn't have to pay.


FTFY.



Lol...

As I have said, I do not own a Super.

Also pretty sure most people in alliance such as mine would hate this idea as it not only would push up the cost but also make it a lot harder to get Supers for those who do not have them and for those who lose them.


I don't care what you do or do not own. Nor did I mention your own personal and irrelevant assets in the post you quoted.

Your alliance (and its allies) immediately benefit from these changes, as indicated by my first post. While it is true that it would be harder to replace losses for you, NC./PL generally don't loose too many supers barring once a decade events like BR-.

Occam's razor says: self interest.