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A Pirate high DPS Missile boat

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Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#121 - 2014-04-09 15:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Wolf
Gregor Parud wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
I would be happy with the current missiles but with non-rig slot modules added to boost explosion velocity, sig radius, flight time, and flight velocity...


That would create massive balancing issues and would force CCP to nerf base stats a bit in order to allow for upgrades to not get silly. Not sure we'd want to open that can of worms, besides; there's painters and since explosion radius is more important than velocity it works fine.



Not really. If they made them low slot mods we lose damage/armor tank
If they made them med slots we lose ewar/shield tank.

Its balanced just like TE/TC are.
They can balance the %s of the bonus on the modules far easier than re-balancing missiles.
Besides we have rigs that do the same thing. So it isn't adding any thing we can't already do. It is just adding more options.

Besides, guns have webs. So maybe we should remove TC/TEs?

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#122 - 2014-04-09 15:58:46 UTC
Yes, webs don't at all help missiles.

Still, you're missing the balancing pov. Turrets are prenerfed because TE/TC exist, we might not notice it because TE/TC have always been around but that doesn't mean they're not taken into account when balancing. And thus, if we get similar modules for missiles they thus will have to prenerf base missile performance.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#123 - 2014-04-09 16:05:57 UTC
In case you haven't used missiles recently, they have already been pre-nerfed pretty adequately.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#124 - 2014-04-09 16:11:08 UTC
That's funny, cruise got massively buffed and Unguided missiles also got massively buffed, LML and cruise do just fine. The only thing that happened is that HML (which was hilariously lol OP) got rebalanced to have its applied dps be on par with the range it gets, if you get silly range you get lower dps, pretty obvious really.

The only missiles that are in real trouble is capital launchers, and perhaps the torps should get a tiny application buff.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#125 - 2014-04-09 16:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Wolf
Gregor Parud wrote:
massively


I do not think that word means what you think it means.


Looking at stats in EFT, then actually USING the missile system in the game are two different things.
Missiles are laughably easy to speed tank. Even a sieged Nag with Arties (worse tracking in the game!) could hit a 10,000m/s inty if the pilot was dumb enough to fly in a straight line away from the nag. No missile system in the game could even put a scratch on that same inty.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#126 - 2014-04-09 17:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
25% base buff in case of unguided sounds massively to me, being affected by rigors sounds massively to me.

And if that inty does tiiiiiiiny bit of transversal, then he doesn't.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#127 - 2014-04-09 17:45:38 UTC
And their base sig radius were increased to compensate. It is still lower than it was, but isn't 25% like you claim.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#128 - 2014-04-09 18:12:06 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
massively


I do not think that word means what you think it means.


Looking at stats in EFT, then actually USING the missile system in the game are two different things.
Missiles are laughably easy to speed tank. Even a sieged Nag with Arties (worse tracking in the game!) could hit a 10,000m/s inty if the pilot was dumb enough to fly in a straight line away from the nag. No missile system in the game could even put a scratch on that same inty.


I have seen a Golem rip apart frigates in 3-4 vollies with torps. It has impressed me enough to start experimenting with the raven hulls and missiles in the same way I do with my Megathrons and I am liking the results.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#129 - 2014-04-09 18:18:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
massively


I do not think that word means what you think it means.


Looking at stats in EFT, then actually USING the missile system in the game are two different things.
Missiles are laughably easy to speed tank. Even a sieged Nag with Arties (worse tracking in the game!) could hit a 10,000m/s inty if the pilot was dumb enough to fly in a straight line away from the nag. No missile system in the game could even put a scratch on that same inty.


I have seen a Golem rip apart frigates in 3-4 vollies with torps. It has impressed me enough to start experimenting with the raven hulls and missiles in the same way I do with my Megathrons and I am liking the results.



Sounds impressive till you realise that a gun ship in the same situation could have done it in 1 volley.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#130 - 2014-04-09 18:30:25 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
massively


I do not think that word means what you think it means.


Looking at stats in EFT, then actually USING the missile system in the game are two different things.
Missiles are laughably easy to speed tank. Even a sieged Nag with Arties (worse tracking in the game!) could hit a 10,000m/s inty if the pilot was dumb enough to fly in a straight line away from the nag. No missile system in the game could even put a scratch on that same inty.


I have seen a Golem rip apart frigates in 3-4 vollies with torps. It has impressed me enough to start experimenting with the raven hulls and missiles in the same way I do with my Megathrons and I am liking the results.



Sounds impressive till you realise that a gun ship in the same situation could have done it in 1 volley.


Not at 2km they wont.

This is where the raven hulls shine, small ships cannot get under their guns like they can with my Megathrons.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#131 - 2014-04-09 18:58:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
massively


I do not think that word means what you think it means.


Looking at stats in EFT, then actually USING the missile system in the game are two different things.
Missiles are laughably easy to speed tank. Even a sieged Nag with Arties (worse tracking in the game!) could hit a 10,000m/s inty if the pilot was dumb enough to fly in a straight line away from the nag. No missile system in the game could even put a scratch on that same inty.


I have seen a Golem rip apart frigates in 3-4 vollies with torps. It has impressed me enough to start experimenting with the raven hulls and missiles in the same way I do with my Megathrons and I am liking the results.



Sounds impressive till you realise that a gun ship in the same situation could have done it in 1 volley.


Not at 2km they wont.

This is where the raven hulls shine, small ships cannot get under their guns like they can with my Megathrons.


With the MJD there should be no reason a frigate is within 50 km of you much less 2km
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#132 - 2014-04-09 19:19:45 UTC
IIshira wrote:


With the MJD there should be no reason a frigate is within 50 km of you much less 2km


If they want to get under your guns then they will. MJD will only work once.

Equally my raven wants them in close, neuts, webs and points work better when in rangeTwisted
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#133 - 2014-04-09 19:30:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
IIshira wrote:


With the MJD there should be no reason a frigate is within 50 km of you much less 2km


If they want to get under your guns then they will. MJD will only work once.

Equally my raven wants them in close, neuts, webs and points work better when in rangeTwisted


For missions it's not a big deal since they will be dead before they get that close. For PVP you can stay aligned so if you see something coming within range just warp out. It sucks being on the other side of some jerk sitting 100 km off sniping you. So far the only counter I've found is either have a safe spot near him or warp to something and come back at 100.

I will agree that missiles work nice close in though. I just don't see many pilots flying the Raven in PVP. I guess that could be because people don't know how to use it well in PVP.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#134 - 2014-04-09 19:38:39 UTC
IIshira wrote:


I will agree that missiles work nice close in though. I just don't see many pilots flying the Raven in PVP. I guess that could be because people don't know how to use it well in PVP.


Almost everyone still thinks of it as a pve only boat. Coupled with most thinking torps suck, RHML suck and BS in general suck at solo/small gang its no wonder we see so few. Personally I view the Golem as one of the most deadly ships currently out there. Sure, damn near all of them are a pve fit pushovers but when you encounter that one Golem flown by a crazy pilot who knows what they are doing you can watch entire fleets get swallowed by them.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#135 - 2014-04-11 21:46:26 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
I would be happy with the current missiles but with non-rig slot modules added to boost explosion velocity, sig radius, flight time, and flight velocity...


That would create massive balancing issues and would force CCP to nerf base stats a bit in order to allow for upgrades to not get silly. Not sure we'd want to open that can of worms, besides; there's painters and since explosion radius is more important than velocity it works fine.


I see so few TPs on PvP ships now days. I see more on drone boats than missile boats. TPs are under utilized on PvP shield tanked missile ships and that results in most missiles applying lack luster damage. The proliferation of single damage type bonuses for missiles doesn't help either.