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TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending

First post
Author
Kate 'on
DevonCorp
#61 - 2014-03-20 18:46:29 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
Cavalira wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
if you want to "test the waters" to see if I'm reliable and honest, by all means, you are welcome to invest 1mil with me and earn 5% until I get hit by a bus.


This sounds like the typical 2x isk scam. Try it out with only a few millions.



I'm not entirely sure how else to persuade people I'm legitimate and trustworthy, other than for them to deposit a small amount, track my interest payments, and then withdraw their funds a few months later. If I can use ~5bil in other peoples' money, double it in a short timeframe, and only pay 250mil/month on it, the opportunity for gain is greater for me to be honest than to rip people off for a tiny 5bil sum.



You could start by not lying. You have no idea how honest you will be if you are given 100bn in seed money for your 'bank'
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#62 - 2014-03-20 20:15:15 UTC
Kate 'on wrote:


You could start by not lying. You have no idea how honest you will be if you are given 100bn in seed money for your 'bank'



Lying about what? You're right though, I don't KNOW how honest I'll be when given 100bil in deposits, but I can assume. Fortunately, I am only accepting a total of 5bil in deposits. Have some faith, Kate. Not everyone is out to lie and cheat.
Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#63 - 2014-03-20 21:53:56 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
Originally, I had not intended on using TAUTX funds for capital lending. After you guys scrutinized this choice, I said I would be amending policies to allow bank funds to be used for loans.

I would appreciate some feedback from the community on what I have so far:
My rule of thumb is this: there is no good reason to change, alter or modify my business plan just because someone with no interest in seeing my business succeed posts negative commentary about my business on the MD forums.

Were I you I would advertise and sell my loan policies to players in game for a few months before posting my policy to the forums.

Good on you for giving loans a try. I hope they work for your business.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#64 - 2014-04-02 16:35:42 UTC
Interest payments have been issued for April at 10.95%.

TAUTX's lending policies are now active and can be found here: TAUTX Lending

Because I did not originally intend on offering loans, and this conflicts with the definition of a bank, I have informed account holders that monthly interest rates on Savings Accounts will be reduced to 2.5% beginning in May. This will allow TAUTX to continue offering loans and bonds at competitive rates. All posts and information pertaining to the 5% interest rate will now be edited.

All account holders have until the 5th to notify me that they wish to withdraw their funds during the May enrollment period (1st - 5th). The same goes for any new accounts opened this month.

Enrollment is now open until the 5th of April. If you would like to open a savings account please send me an evemail now. The remaining Shares available can always be found in the TAUTX corp info window.
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2014-04-03 13:57:37 UTC
Stick your isk in my virtual bank?

Why?

1) there are zero contracts available to protect anyone that would be willing to make a deposit
2) there are no system mechanics which allow players to create contracts and guarantee they would be paid any isk in any order
3) there are no virtual lawyers or virtual FDIC to enforce any of these contracts.
4) even if you leant isk out, there are no guaranteed ways for you to get paid back

Look, I like your idea, but there's ZERO way to insure or guarantee an investment other than your word, and no offense, anyone's word in EVE is worth about a handful of poo.

You might have better luck going to Jita and wasting your time isk doubling.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#66 - 2014-04-03 14:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Koniforous
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
Stick your isk in my virtual bank?

Why?

1) there are zero contracts available to protect anyone that would be willing to make a deposit
2) there are no system mechanics which allow players to create contracts and guarantee they would be paid any isk in any order
3) there are no virtual lawyers or virtual FDIC to enforce any of these contracts.
4) even if you leant isk out, there are no guaranteed ways for you to get paid back

Look, I like your idea, but there's ZERO way to insure or guarantee an investment other than your word, and no offense, anyone's word in EVE is worth about a handful of poo.

You might have better luck going to Jita and wasting your time isk doubling.


I am aware that if I lend isk out I may not see it again. Please read the lending constraints policies on the TAUTX webpage under the "What does TAUTX do with my isk?" policy section. If you believe this is a poor lending structure, I would appreciate your feedback.

Thank you for liking my idea. And, you're right, there is no way to guarantee depositors' funds; other than my word. I have been operating this bank for a few months now, originally with those from my alliance, and now with people from the public community. My poopoo words are beginning to polish, because of my continued trustworthy actions ;).

Since all 5,000 Shares have been claimed, there is no time for illegitimate isk doubling scams! Look forward to May's enrollment period if you would like to deposit funds, I may* be increasing Shares.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#67 - 2014-04-03 14:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
Stick your isk in my virtual bank?

Why?

1) there are zero contracts available to protect anyone that would be willing to make a deposit
2) there are no system mechanics which allow players to create contracts and guarantee they would be paid any isk in any order
3) there are no virtual lawyers or virtual FDIC to enforce any of these contracts.
4) even if you leant isk out, there are no guaranteed ways for you to get paid back

Look, I like your idea, but there's ZERO way to insure or guarantee an investment other than your word, and no offense, anyone's word in EVE is worth about a handful of poo.

You might have better luck going to Jita and wasting your time isk doubling.


I think about 70% of MD posts including this could be summed up as: "we don't trust you".

On my selfish part I have no personal issue with trust and I DO know how it's to be with 100B of Investors because I have done it.

But that's not about me or an other handful of guys. It's about how it's somewhat sad that for 99% of the EvE player base, after 10 years, there's still now way to start a business without the minimal tools to insure it can get succesfully done.

I don't mean "succesfully done" as "delivering with profits" but we can't even begin a business, we lack the basic tools to start it.

Edit: We are in a dystopian, hyper-capitalist universe, yet we can't play with capital like a proper country can.
Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#68 - 2014-04-03 18:34:34 UTC
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
...and no offense, anyone's word in EVE is worth about a handful of poo.
Either you haven't been playing the game very long, or you haven't been paying all that much attention while playing.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
It's about how it's somewhat sad that for 99% of the EvE player base, after 10 years, there's still now way to start a business without the minimal tools to insure it can get successfully done.

I don't mean "successfully done" as "delivering with profits" but we can't even begin a business, we lack the basic tools to start it.
If Koniforous doesn't mind, I'd be interesting in hearing just what sort of minimal tools you have in mind.

I believe there should always be an element of risk in EVE. If you can suggest tools that enhance the business experience (i.e., make it so I don't have to do everything on my own with Excel, etc.) without removing the level of risk, I'm all ears.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2014-04-07 11:50:21 UTC
Far Wanderer wrote:
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
...and no offense, anyone's word in EVE is worth about a handful of poo.
Either you haven't been playing the game very long, or you haven't been paying all that much attention while playing.



It would seem to me you're the one that hasn't been playing very long. Trust can be developed in the real world where there are real consequences and actions for breaking that trust. In an anonymous, virtual world, trust would be the high exception to the rule.

Only a fool would look at it otherwise.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#70 - 2014-04-07 15:27:28 UTC
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
Far Wanderer wrote:
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
...and no offense, anyone's word in EVE is worth about a handful of poo.
Either you haven't been playing the game very long, or you haven't been paying all that much attention while playing.



It would seem to me you're the one that hasn't been playing very long. Trust can be developed in the real world where there are real consequences and actions for breaking that trust. In an anonymous, virtual world, trust would be the high exception to the rule.

Only a fool would look at it otherwise.



Aside from continually proving myself trustworthy through my actions and banking practices, I thought that posting with my main would invoke a lot more trust within the community. Trust is scarce in an anon environment; I really wanted to prove that I was legitimate to people. I guess that shows how new I was to the eve forums, though, because no one seemed to care, as much as I thought they would, that this is my main.

You're a little late to the shame parade, Muffet. Everyone has already brought up, I think, most of the typical "justify this" "what a fool that" "burned your future" comments. I don't regret any of this, either. I'm enjoying my operations, and given the recent increase in public/community depositors, I think everyone is starting to realize I meant it when I said I'm not out to scam anyone. To this date, I haven't had one client request a withdrawal, and that really impresses me. I thought for sure someone would deposit funds and request a withdrawal 30 days later just to make sure I was legit. I guess I should have given the community as much trust as I was expecting to receive. We're all in this together.
Lexy Davison
Spirit Fire Inc
#71 - 2014-04-07 21:48:17 UTC
I would be interested in investing if you have room. Private message me when slot opens.

Thanks.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬       Lexy <3    Davison <3 ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#72 - 2014-04-07 22:11:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
Trust can be developed in the real world where there are real consequences and actions for breaking that trust.
and trust can just as readily be developed in the online world of EVE, without mechanisms in place to impose consequences.

FYI, in the real world there are a huge number of systems and laws in place to get people to play nice and behave, yet people still break the rules.

"Trust no one 100% of the time" is good advice when you are just starting out, but claiming that all people in EVE are completely untrustworthy is just wrong.

EDIT: I think your reasons for being hesitant to invest are perfectly valid. For a lot of people the lack of in-game mechanisms to secure loans or investments means they won't loan out or invest their ISK. It's your clincher at the end of your first post in the thread I disagree with.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Lexy Davison
Spirit Fire Inc
#73 - 2014-04-08 02:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexy Davison
No.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬       Lexy <3    Davison <3 ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#74 - 2014-04-09 04:22:40 UTC
Greetings

Please use Bug Report out of game to report issues, thanks

On On

ISD Flidais Asagiri Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#75 - 2014-04-12 19:51:46 UTC
NAV = 11,469,471,546.27


After some helpful information on how to work EveHQ (Thank you very much!), I can now present monthly NAV reports for everyone. Big smile
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2014-04-12 20:33:34 UTC
..I commend you for weathering the storm you are in, and for seemingly running an institute that is successful.

One issue that has always prevented me from 'depositing' or 'loaning' out ISK is the risk and reward relationship.

The risk is too high for me to loan out 1/4th or more of my wealth. And the reward is too low for me to loan out 1/4th or less of my ISK.

But I must say, again, congratulations on making it this far, and with this much success.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#77 - 2014-04-13 00:28:15 UTC
Syds Sinclair wrote:
..I commend you for weathering the storm you are in, and for seemingly running an institute that is successful.

One issue that has always prevented me from 'depositing' or 'loaning' out ISK is the risk and reward relationship.

The risk is too high for me to loan out 1/4th or more of my wealth. And the reward is too low for me to loan out 1/4th or less of my ISK.

But I must say, again, congratulations on making it this far, and with this much success.


Thanks for the positivity, Syds. Honestly, I was really bummed out at how badly my Bank was perceived on the forums. I felt like I had really done my research and put some great policies in place, and that everyone would see that. Oh well, it's working out really well for me, and for my clients, so far. And, ya, I get the risk/reward relationship thing. That's probably why the majority of my depositors are pilots that have known me for a while. I expect to slowly prove myself though, and appeal to my target audience.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#78 - 2014-04-21 09:55:30 UTC
By setting a 2.5% flat interest rate on deposits, I had unknowingly capped the maximum deposits TAUTX could handle, and created an environment with an ever increasing chance of default as TAUTX expanded.

To address this, I started working on TAUTF. TAUTF would have allowed TAUTX to take on more depositors, with minimal increase of default chance on interest payments or withdrawals. But, I wanted TAUTF share prices to fluctuate in relation to TAUTX profits. I have been unable to develop an attractive formula (for both investors and TAUTX) for this. So, I am scrapping TAUTF for the time being. Thank you to all of the pilots that provided me with feedback while I worked on TAUTF.

In order maintain a relatively low chance of default, and allow regular expansion of TAUTX, I will be amending TAUTX policies, and these changes will begin June 1st. They are:

Currently, TAUTX has 5bil in depositor funds, and pays a flat 2.5% interest rate on this amount; which equals 125mil each month. If TAUTX were to earn 1bil in 1 month, 125mil would equal 12.5% of profits. TAUTX will be switching from this flat rate, and will now be paying out a monthly dividend payment in the amount of 12.5% of its estimated monthly profit report. What does this mean?! It means that if TAUTX earns more than 1bil in one month, you will see a higher interest payment from your shares than you would have with the old flat rate system. This also means that anything less than 1bil profit and you will see less returns. At 0 profits TAUTX will not issue an interest payment dividend, and this will GREATLY reduce the risk of future defaults.

Shares will not fluctuate in price. They will remain at 1mil purchase price, and 1mil buyback price. Regardless of profits. Savings account withdrawals will be honored regardless of profits.

There are 2 sides to this coin. While depositors will now have the possibility of seeing more than 2.5% interest on their investments; anytime TAUTX expands and takes on new shares, current account holders will see a reduced return on their savings unless they purchase more shares in relation to the expansion. I have also created a clear policy for TAUTX expansions so that investors will know when an expansion might occur.

To expand, the TAUTX NAV will have to equal 2 times the amount of maxmimum deposits. Once this Net Assest Value is achieved, TAUTX will be allowed (not forced) to expand by 25% of maximum available shares. I will expand TAUTX at my discretion once the required NAV is achieved.

These policies will go into effect June 1st. This means that the interest payment on May 1st will be at the current 2.5% flat rate, and that the June 1st interest payment will also be at the current 2.5% flat rate. The July 1st, and subsequent, interest payments will follow the new format. This will give current account holders enough time to send me a 30 day withdrawal request if they do not agree with these changes.

Thank you to all of my investors, account holders, friends, and professional acquaintances that have helped me with these new policies over the last few days. You know who you are, and your feedback has been greatly appreciated.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#79 - 2014-04-23 00:22:19 UTC
I have updated the Savings Account Page of TAUTX. Changes reflect the new policies taking affect June 1st:

All references to the previous interest rate have been modified to read 12.5% of profits paid as a Dividend payment.

Sections Added include:

Estimated Monthly Profit Reports, Monthly NAV Reports, and The Monthly Interest Rate.
TAUTX issues an estimated monthly Profit Report.
TAUTX uses a 3rd party program to determine this report and the value that it displays is only an estimation. Occassionally, the completion of loans and sell contracts will take place during the month. TAUTX will do its best to include these in monthly profit reports, but can only guarantee that these reports are estimations.
TAUTX issues an estimated monthly Net Asset Value Report (NAV Report).
TAUTX uses a 3rd party program to determine this report and the value that it displays is only an estimation. Occassionally, inflated sell orders used for market pvp will offset this value. TAUTX will do its best to correct these NAV Reports to more appropriate values, but can only guarantee that they are estimations.
The monthly Interest Rate is determined using the estimated monthly Profit Report.
After releasing the estimated monthly Profit Report, TAUTX will issue a 1 time Dividend payment in the amount of 12.5% of this report. This will occur on the 1st - 5th of each month.
Investors will see returns on their savings based on the amount of Shares they hold in relation to the maximum amount of Shares in circulation, and the amount of profit TAUTX reported. At 1bil profit, and 5000 shares in circulation, this would equate to 25000 isk per share.


How will TAUTX expand maximum Shares in circulation?
TAUTX releases an estimated Net Asset Value report monthly. Once this NAV equals 2 times the amount of maximum shares in circulation, TAUTX will be allowed to expand by 25% of maximum shares in circulation.
Once the decision is made to expand, TAUTX will issue a notice 30 days prior to the expansion via the TAUTX mailing list: TAUTX
Current Account holders will be allowed to reserve Shares during expansions in an amount equal to 25% of their Shares.
Current Account holders MUST Evemail Koniforous prior to the date of expansion to reserve their Shares.

This will allow current account holders to see the same rate of returns as before the Share expansion.
Current Account holders will be allowed to purchase more than a 25% increase of their current shares during an expansion, but can only RESERVE an amount equal to 25% of their current Shares.
If 25% of an Investor's current Shares is not a whole number, the amount will be rounded down to the nearest integer.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#80 - 2014-04-24 16:02:20 UTC
With the new interest structure, the old 30 day request policy on withdrawals is obsolete. I have updated TAUTX Policies to reflect this, and state that withdrawal requests will be honored as soon as funds permit.

For example:

TAUTX had its first ever withdrawal request on the 21st, and it was processed on the 23rd. Quicker than the old 30 day policy Big smile

Interest will continue to be paid on the 1st - 5th, so that any early withdrawals will not see an interest payment, and clients that keep their funds in savings will be rewarded.