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Encounter Surveilance System at anomalies
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Wulfgar WarHammer
Unrustled
#21 - 2014-04-08 19:43:17 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I'm struggling to see the problem with having NPCs shoot at player deployed structures.


If the end result of this thread becomes some kind of patch that makes rats blow up my MTU's, I'll be pissed.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-04-08 19:51:18 UTC
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I'm struggling to see the problem with having NPCs shoot at player deployed structures.


If the end result of this thread becomes some kind of patch that makes rats blow up my MTU's, I'll be pissed.

considering the only time in missions an MTU is actually useful is deploying at the start of a room with a sniper-fit ship, yeah id be pissed.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#23 - 2014-04-08 19:56:31 UTC
The "exploit" that I assume people are referring to would be something like "MTU tanking" where you get the rats to agress the MTU first, then run a remote rep on it, thereby freeing up a ship for more spank over tank and being able to blitz missions even faster.

Give it time, the min-maxer OCD players will find a way.

(Wish I could get that crowd to, you know, invent a real life warp drive or a cure for cancer or something)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#24 - 2014-04-08 20:50:17 UTC
Ludacrys wrote:
So i was wondering, is it intended game mechanics when 0.0 ratters can deploy their ECSs at 0 on anomalies and have rats guard it for them? Seems to me CCP spent a lot of time tinkering with timers, etc on it to be balanced in terms of risks vs rewards but being able to have entire pockets of rats guard your isk making machine defeats that


It's a clever thing to do, I very much admire the people who thought it up. Makes the devs at ccp look like half arsed amateurs.

I do note however that if this could happen in high sec then most of null would be petitioning CCP over it as an exploit.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-04-08 21:37:24 UTC
Can reinforced stuff still be shot or do they give error when you try to shoot at them?

If they can eb shot, what can be deployed on grid and also have a reinforce timer?

Answer to question 2 will be the new optimal tanking "module" as long as 1 is "they can still be shot".
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#26 - 2014-04-08 21:52:27 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

I do note however that if this could happen in high sec then most of null would be petitioning CCP over it as an exploit.


You mean like the MTU "bug"? Or was that the other way around?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#27 - 2014-04-08 22:01:43 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Ludacrys wrote:
So i was wondering, is it intended game mechanics when 0.0 ratters can deploy their ECSs at 0 on anomalies and have rats guard it for them? Seems to me CCP spent a lot of time tinkering with timers, etc on it to be balanced in terms of risks vs rewards but being able to have entire pockets of rats guard your isk making machine defeats that


It's a clever thing to do, I very much admire the people who thought it up. Makes the devs at ccp look like half arsed amateurs.

I do note however that if this could happen in high sec then most of null would be petitioning CCP over it as an exploit.


This exploit was implemented about 20 seconds after CCP dropped the ESS on TQ.
Remember, the null sec cartels screamed blue murder over the 1st iteration (as did I, since it was unfair). So CCP bent over backwards with the 2nd iteration, giving null sec a 5% buff to ISK and a massive gift of LP, and giving the cartel members a completely risk-free unit.

But of course, it is not an exploit, since if it was, CCP would have fixed it.
Those poor poor cartels. I mean, how do they breathe, with all the ISK CCP smothers them with.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#28 - 2014-04-08 22:25:48 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
I don't think I could even begin to list the number of exploits that having rats aggroing deployed structures would provide for the community, sure you want to go that route?

Is your inability to even begin listing exploits because you see none, or because you see so many that you don't know where to start?

If the latter, any chance you could try, because I'm struggling to see the problem with having NPCs shoot at player deployed structures.


Didn't think I had too, didn't think anyone was that clueless.

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-04-08 22:26:45 UTC
Man, how do you come up with all of this stuff?

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-04-08 22:51:05 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This exploit was implemented about 20 seconds after CCP dropped the ESS on TQ.

Only in your universe is a legitimate use of game mechanics called an exploit.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-04-08 22:56:26 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This exploit was implemented about 20 seconds after CCP dropped the ESS on TQ.

Only in your universe is a legitimate use of game mechanics called an exploit.

Actually an exploit is something you do when you use something aggressively. "I exploited the loophole" or "I really exploited that Goon after slipping it a Roofie".

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Cheng Musana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-04-08 22:56:57 UTC
Hmm maybe im gonna shot all trigers in a forlorn hub and then quickly put a ESS up. Any 1 who comes by is probably getting shot to pieces.
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-04-08 22:57:45 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But of course, it is not an exploit, since if it was, CCP would have fixed it.
Those poor poor cartels. I mean, how do they breathe, with all the ISK CCP smothers them with.


Sometimes, I hold my little technetium pillow close to me and cry into it when I go to sleep at night.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-04-08 22:58:43 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This exploit was implemented about 20 seconds after CCP dropped the ESS on TQ.

Only in your universe is a legitimate use of game mechanics called an exploit.

Actually an exploit is something you do when you use something aggressively. "I exploited the loophole" or "I really exploited that Goon after slipping it a Roofie".


I'm am totally unsurprised that you think sexual assault jokes are funny.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-04-08 23:17:11 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This exploit was implemented about 20 seconds after CCP dropped the ESS on TQ.

Only in your universe is a legitimate use of game mechanics called an exploit.

Actually an exploit is something you do when you use something aggressively. "I exploited the loophole" or "I really exploited that Goon after slipping it a Roofie".



Bad sexual assault joke aside, it's only an exploit if it's enabling something which was never intended when it was implemented or if a result of the use ends with a result not intended.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#36 - 2014-04-08 23:40:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I'm struggling to see the problem with having NPCs shoot at player deployed structures.


If the end result of this thread becomes some kind of patch that makes rats blow up my MTU's, I'll be pissed.

I hope it isn't (for the benefit of mission runners who seem to use the MTU the most) and I don't see any motivation in CCP to change the mechanics around deplorables more than they have already.

However, that isn't an exploit, which is what I'm trying to figure out. How are there so many exploits associated with such a change.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#37 - 2014-04-08 23:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Didn't think I had too, didn't think anyone was that clueless.

Some players such as myself apparently aren't really all that smart.

So struggling to see exploits with this is just a sign of my own limitation and I'd be most humbly thankful if you could help me overcome my clueless state by listing even just a few of the many exploits that are so obvious to players of a higher caliber such as yourself.
Obunagawe
#38 - 2014-04-09 00:15:36 UTC
Stick it next to the torping station in The Maze.
Ne'Rubis Tanthalas
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-04-09 00:23:25 UTC
Obunagawe wrote:
Stick it next to the torping station in The Maze.


Don't the acceleration gates work for the purpose of preventing you anchor it?

Also would warping to it not put you in that ridiculous first room?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#40 - 2014-04-09 03:43:34 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This exploit was implemented about 20 seconds after CCP dropped the ESS on TQ.

Only in your universe is a legitimate use of game mechanics called an exploit.

Actually an exploit is something you do when you use something aggressively. "I exploited the loophole" or "I really exploited that Goon after slipping it a Roofie".



Bad sexual assault joke aside, it's only an exploit if it's enabling something which was never intended when it was implemented or if a result of the use ends with a result not intended.


Precisely.
And when CCP devs redesigned this abomination, the null sec cartels made them fully aware of how it was going to be used. The 2nd iteration of the ESS was ALWAYS planned on being another immense boost to null sec income, so as you said, it was never an exploit.
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