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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Naomi Anthar
#181 - 2014-04-07 19:24:18 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Quote:
As a Rattlesnake pilot, I'm really worried what you're going to do to it.

RIP Rattlesnake.


More like long live rattlesnake ! With Ogres of course ;)).

Yay! I can use slow drones that don't have a chance in hell of making it back into my dronebay before getting blapped off the field!

Wait, what?


Both heavy and medium drones are getting speed buff at same time. Read Dev Blog about this.

Speaking of EHP of Ogre with 500% bonus ... ain't going down easily. Especially that it will be faster at same time. And on top of that rattle does more damage from missiles than ever.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#182 - 2014-04-07 19:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Gypsio III wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
phantasm could definitely do with a full set of lights too deal with frigs and it will need a neut so .. more pg and cap is needed really ... reduce the sig radius a little more would be good so it doesn't end up at 200 sig with extenders... maybe exchange some armour ... they are meant too be shield tanked anyway..

They aren't going to do that. The whole point seems to be that the ship is mismatched. That is why it appears powerful on paper, because you are going to have to contend with all of the contradictions in its fittings, stats, and bonuses.

For instance it appears like it is meant to go super fast, yet it cannot track when it does. And it appears as though it is meant to be shield tanked, although its sig rockets when it is countering the speed benefit. It appears as though it could be armour tanked, yet the base shield is substantially higher.

I think I can see what CCP Rise is doing, as this seems his style. It is kind of interesting, but the concept seems to be purposefully messy, and in practice it will be a lot weaker than it appears on paper.


These criticisms don't make much sense. An ABing Phantasm will be slower than a MWDing one, and hence will track better, all others being equal. If tracking is a problem, then try flying in a different direction, slowing down or turning the AB off.

You criticise the sig radius, yet ignore the biggest sig bloom mod of them all - the MWD, which you would be fitting without the AB bonus. If you want really a small sig, just active shield tank it. Anyway, the speed bonus will exceed the detrimental effects of shield sig bloom in normal conditions.

Edit - your reference to a web range bonus just screams highsec incursion runner wanting to blap at range with a Nightmare. Straight

I'm not saying it won't be powerful, I think the current ship proposed will be very powerful still despite all the contradictions in its fittings. I'm saying it won't be as powerful as it seems though on paper, and you cannot deny that it has many contradictions in the way the ship has been designed, which is ugly to me, but I've noticed Rise likes to do that as he has with a couple of ships.

Also a 250% web range bonus won't help the Nightmare as much as it will help the lower class ships, as a PVE Nightmares guns more than doubles the range of that web, it would be more useful in making them viable in pvp.

But anyway, as much as I would have loved to see that, I doubt it will happen now.
Usagi Lunar
Triton Industries.
#183 - 2014-04-07 19:25:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Usagi Lunar
I am very sad about the Gila changes D:

and I too fear for my rattle.
Rain6637
NulzSec
#184 - 2014-04-07 19:27:57 UTC
ok fine, stretching the 50 drone assist limit is good. still like my bonused HAM of death idea.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#185 - 2014-04-07 19:43:16 UTC
I have not flown my Gila in a long time.

I had it configured for low sec exploration, with sentries.
I was waiting to see what niche it would fill, but realize it is now complete garbage as a PvE ship., as the AI will still shred medium drones just like they do now, wiping out much of the DPS in seconds.
And of course, in a PvP situation, the adversary will just blow up a Hammerhead and bam, a huge chunk of DPS is removed.

I will wait until prices go up, as some poor saps will think it is awesome, and likely sell it.

But hey, you sycophants that think rise and fozzie should cater solely to the PvP crowd, you keep on licking their boots.
They are doing wonders for you. The rest of us, well, we are screwed by them at very turn.

I can't wait until my Stratios is "rebalanced" solely as a PvP boat, and well, my low sec exploration Proteus was already trashed.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2014-04-07 19:48:02 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I have not flown my Gila in a long time.

I had it configured for low sec exploration, with sentries.
I was waiting to see what niche it would fill, but realize it is now complete garbage as a PvE ship., as the AI will still shred medium drones just like they do now, wiping out much of the DPS in seconds.
And of course, in a PvP situation, the adversary will just blow up a Hammerhead and bam, a huge chunk of DPS is removed.

I will wait until prices go up, as some poor saps will think it is awesome, and likely sell it.

But hey, you sycophants that think rise and fozzie should cater solely to the PvP crowd, you keep on licking their boots.
They are doing wonders for you. The rest of us, well, we are screwed by them at very turn.

I can't wait until my Stratios is "rebalanced" solely as a PvP boat, and well, my low sec exploration Proteus was already trashed.

i too continue to cling to a weapons system that is doomed to be nerfed despite months of proposed and implemented game changes stomping on it at every single turn
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#187 - 2014-04-07 19:50:56 UTC
i am not shocked dinsdale was using the wrong ship poorly for a niche it's bested in by a lot of other ships and is whining when it is rebalanced to have its own niche that is pretty unique instead of it being buffed for dinsdale's dumb use

not shocked at all

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Katsami
Maidens Of The Chalice
Two Maidens One Chalice
#188 - 2014-04-07 19:53:49 UTC
o7 Cynabal

Good night, sweet space prince.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#189 - 2014-04-07 19:57:21 UTC
When do we get these on Singularity anyway?
suicide
Brand Newbros
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#190 - 2014-04-07 19:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: suicide
If the Gila / Faction Frigate are going to be limited to M and S DPS drones only, please consider giving them some drone velocity / tracking bonuses as well.

Overall the changes to the Gila feel a bit nerfy, and something to accentuate it's very limited strength would likely be valuable for the ship line.
Marsan
#191 - 2014-04-07 20:04:43 UTC
Damn you now I'm going to have pull some of my Phantasms off the market for my use;-)

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Mr Floydy
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2014-04-07 20:04:55 UTC
Can someone bring up some actual numbers on how the Gila's drones will work out here. I've only got an old EFT build to hand and haven't got time to dig through the drone rebalance thread.


Looking at the old version of EFT on my work laptop, a Ogre 2 in a level 5 skilled Gila would have around 500 shield, 2665 hull and 1080 armour.

A unbonused Hammerhead 2 would have 167 shield, 360 armour and 887 hull.
500% bonus to that would make a single hammerhead significantly more tanky than the current Ogres? Or am I missing something here?
With the 500% bonus they're going to have 100 shield, 2160 armour and 5322 hull?

That's a huge amount of tank on a drone with better tracking, speed etc...





Phantasm change looks pretty cool :) More comments later...
Chronoxi
The Slick Daddy Club
Slick Daddy Club
#193 - 2014-04-07 20:06:41 UTC
Please do not reduce the Vigilants powergrid by 10%. This is not a small change as it can currently barely fit a reasonable 1600mm buffer tank with T2 Ions. With this proposed change people will either start having to use 800mm plates, drop to electrons or self rep. All of these options making this a worse and more expensive Deimos.

Also, +1 on Cynabal changes needing to be rethought. Cynabal is currently similar to the old Vagabond but has not kept pace with the balance changes to T1 cruisers.

weeeeEEEEEEEEEE are never ever ever!

Nbonga
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#194 - 2014-04-07 20:09:03 UTC
I was expecting Cynabal to get somewhat better cap life life and -25m3 on drone bay. PG nerf was expected. Hello Gila.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2014-04-07 20:12:48 UTC
While I liked the drones on the Worm I feel that the Gila should get an extra drone and a slightly lower % boost as a role bonus. Playing with 2 drones at frig level is alright, but at cruiser level it should be 3 or 4 with an adjusted role bonus.

So with 3 drones it would be 333% or 4 would be 250%

Another idea that might work to add some versatility would be to try giving it 25 mbit/s bandwidth. Since the bonus only applied to med drones, the light drone gets no additional bonuses but could allow for Ewar drones or something (if you guys intend to work on them to make them useful anyways.)
Micky Nox
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#196 - 2014-04-07 20:16:35 UTC
Cynabal nerf looks really bad. It was the only and the last minmatar arty platform. Vagabond is much better atm, see no reason to nerf cynabals after all tracking nerfs we have seen…

sad times :(
Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc.
Rogue Caldari Union
#197 - 2014-04-07 20:18:46 UTC
I feel a little underwhelmed by the predictability of of the changes here. Phantasm will be interesting with 100mn, but would have liked to see a little better base mobility. Ashimmu, align time what? PWG nerf on cynabal is understandable, but 280 seems pretty heavy handed to me in addition to getting slapped with a mass increase. I think I would be remiss in not signing my name to the list of people who are saying that slapping a relatively hefty nerf to the cynabal might be the toll of obscurity for a once prominent ship.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#198 - 2014-04-07 20:19:36 UTC
on the gila although 5k hull on a hammerhead may sound good in theory .. in practice it has no resists its sig is too high and its orbit velocity is hardly convincing .. take a couple of thousand off hull and add it too armour and shields..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#199 - 2014-04-07 20:22:04 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
i am not shocked dinsdale was using the wrong ship poorly for a niche it's bested in by a lot of other ships and is whining when it is rebalanced to have its own niche that is pretty unique instead of it being buffed for dinsdale's dumb use

not shocked at all


Well, the Gila is a solid PvE boat. The missiles and drones allow for damage selection. And Laserzpewpew killed plenty of goons with a PvP Gila.


The Gila definitely needed some love with speed and cpu/grid. But it will still be outclassed by other missiles boats or other drone boats, and split weapons ships suck to actually use even if they produce big numbers in EFT. And without sentries, all the dps of this Gila is delayed dps.
Mr Floydy
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2014-04-07 20:24:31 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
sig is too high and its orbit velocity is hardly convincing


Hang on, you say sig size there. Checking EFT, Do medium drones really have the same sig size as large drones? Or is my EFT broken :s
That's mad.

Not able to really comment on the orbit velocities. I've always found them pretty tough to nail quick enough when orbiting you firing as they are currently, let alone with a boost. Don't they struggle to track at the speed they orbit at normally? I'm rusty with drones! :p