These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Should eve be more 'Pay to Win?'

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#81 - 2014-04-07 02:31:15 UTC
Trying to make EvE into another generic P2W MMO?

GTFO.

Stop trying to ruin our game.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#82 - 2014-04-07 02:32:05 UTC
I've always been of the opinion that the skill system shouldn't be a gate to content, but rather simply be a means to improve upon it.

Tiericide went a long way to doing that, and I'm not sure any more is really even necessary.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#83 - 2014-04-07 03:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
One of the reasons I stay with this game is because its not pay to win or grind to win.

I do not agree with it but if you want pay to win go buy a pilot or use ISboxxer and run 10 accounts and call it solo pvp.

I like this game because you HAVE to put in the time. It keeps the instant gratification kids out. You cant grind 23/7 and get ahead of the other guy just get more isk.

So no. Once this game becomes any more pay to win than it already is I will be moving on.

Yes...... when that day comes you can have my stuff.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#84 - 2014-04-07 04:06:14 UTC
Life is pay to win.

EvE might as well be too.
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#85 - 2014-04-07 11:48:00 UTC
Pay to win...or sacrifice your RL to win? That is the question.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#86 - 2014-04-07 11:49:32 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
A strange topic title and I've rapidly changed my opinions on these things over the past few years, but i'll explain where i'm coming from.

I have a good friend who loves the idea of Eve, has played it and is intelligent enough to grasp the concepts of it and work within the structures it has in place. He see's Fleet fights on Youtube and reports of massive scams and schemes and he loves it. He's not alone, I have multiple friends who are like this. The one i am talking about in particular has Subbed a few times and every time after a month or 2 has come back with the same feedback: It takes too long to get into properly fitted ships.

I used to ignore this, but it's becoming unavoidable - The new player-> veteran gulf is big and boosts for new players only goes so far. So my question is this:

Should people be able to accelerate skill training as a micro transaction?

Without going into too much detail, it seems like it might be worth seriously considering. Becoming GOOD at eve takes time, but that is also relative. If you play every day for 10 hours you WILL get better... only to be hindered by the arbitrary number that is 'Skill points'.

I've been playing since 2006'ish and I want to see a new influx of players or a way for newer players to accelerate themselfs to keep interest in the game. I've spent years training skills and it doesn't feel like an accomplishment. All i had to do was auto renew a subscription. What i've DONE in Eve feels like an accomplishment.

Perhaps offering 1 months subscription cost for 1 months worth of skillpoints (based on char stats) into your unassigned pool would be a possible way to ensure that old players got the same number of SP for every penny/cent they spent as a new player does. None of this makes new players better at the game or more financially sound... just gives them access to more ships/bonuses/market-opportunities.


Buy PLEX, sell for ISK, Buy character, equip with fancy ships. All legit and completely supported. And cheaper than ever!

Now He's paid, surely he will win.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#87 - 2014-04-07 12:00:57 UTC
I've thought about this issue too some. This toon has over 110M SP and I'm the guy who made it. I'm in a young alliance full of <1 year old toons however. Things I take for granted like t2 EANM's are actually kind of a big deal to many of them. It's 8-10d of training. Sure, it's a drop in the bucket overall. But when you consider that's for a single module and there are literally dozens of such mandatory items to be at all competitive regardless of what you use, it adds up fast.

I do not believe it should be possible to accelerate training times via plex or subscription, this would be very bad for the game as a whole. However I do think new players should get some sort of initial boost to allow smart new players to reach a basic level more or less instantly instead of spending 2 months just training up basic fitting skills.

There are a few possible non-p2w solutions. One of the most obvious is to simply give new characters 2-3M free SP to spend as they see fit. That would largely eliminate the issue. I consider this the ideal option as it allows a new player to instantly have a decent frigate or destroyer of their choice. This isn't particularly drastic either. When I started playing back in 2007, my toon was created with around 800k SP if memory serves. I think I had all the prerequisites for t2 small projectiles straight off the character creation screen. And the average SP back then was a lot lower than it is today.

Another option that has also been tried is accelerated skill training for your first 1.5M-2M SP. This was done a couple years back as well. I honestly don't know why CCP decided to brutalize new players by starting them at effectively 0 SP in the current incarnation.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Sarah McKnobbo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2014-04-07 12:02:33 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
The one i am talking about in particular has Subbed a few times and every time after a month or 2 has come back with the same feedback: It takes too long to get into properly fitted ships.


1) Buy PLEX
2) Convert to ISK
3) Buy character
4)????
5) Profit! (Wel, die in a ball of expensive fire due to lack of experience but, you get the idea)
Tyramern
Doomheim
#89 - 2014-04-07 12:14:34 UTC
Attracting lots of people that are looking for instant gratification... great idea.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#90 - 2014-04-07 13:19:11 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:


I have a good friend who loves the idea of Eve, has played it and is intelligent enough to grasp the concepts of it and work within the structures it has in place. He see's Fleet fights on Youtube and reports of massive scams and schemes and he loves it. He's not alone, I have multiple friends who are like this. The one i am talking about in particular has Subbed a few times and every time after a month or 2 has come back with the same feedback: It takes too long to get into properly fitted ships.


The problem is your 'friend' and his lack of patience/determination, not anything wrong with the game.

What you should be doing is saying to your 'friend' "hey buddy, instead of subbing for a month or 2, leaving, coming back and then complaining about how things take to long, maybe you should either understand that EVE isn't for you because you're too impatient, or sub long enough to accomplish your goals".

Your post amounts to "instant gratification kiddies will give CCP money if you gratify them...instantly". It's the wrong way to go, EVE does and should demand patience and perseverance otherwise it's just another crappy mmo.
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#91 - 2014-04-07 13:34:38 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Should people be able to accelerate skill training as a micro transaction?


They already can.

Step #1: Create Account.

Step #2: Invest $XXXX in PLEX, however many you need for the following steps.

Step #3: Sell PLEX, currently running at ~$690 mil isk per PLEX.

Step #4: Use newfound billions in isk to purchase a pre-skilled character off the Character Bazzar.

And there you have it.

Direct injection of cash -> isk, then isk -> highly skilled/advanced character.

$10 Billion in isk will buy you a decent character, and will cost (from nothing) a meager $246.00 or so in PLEX investment.

Problem solved.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#92 - 2014-04-07 13:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Organic Lager
I see no issues with this... I mean we do already have the character bazaar so why not allow people to pay to boost their own created characters?

I would add the following terms though
-They are done as sp boosts and not flat amounts of sp. Something along the lines of 2x or 3x sp for 30 days
-They are cash only purchases to prevent plex prices from going through the roof

Edit: better yet allow 2x or 3x boosts to be purchased as sellable licenses for $5 more the same as plex.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#93 - 2014-04-07 13:59:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Organic Lager wrote:
I see no issues with this... I mean we do already have the character bazaar so why not allow people to pay to boost their own created characters?
Because unlike the character bazaar, it bypasses the mechanics that ensure that you can't get skills faster by paying for it compared to not paying for it. Also, unlike the character bazaar, it completely wrecks the character ecology. Also, unlike the character bazaar, it benefits existing characters (i.e. old players) far more than it does new characters.

If you want to train faster, then just ask CCP to make training faster. Don't invent this idiotic pay-to-skip-mechanics scheme that does horrible things to the game and mechanics balance.

Because that's really what these ideas boil down to: the notion that “I don't want to be subject to the same mechanics everyone else is subject to — please let me pay to not play the same game as everyone else.” The very notion that drives the idea is also the very reason why it's an obviously hideously stupid idea.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#94 - 2014-04-07 14:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Organic Lager wrote:
I see no issues with this... I mean we do already have the character bazaar so why not allow people to pay to boost their own created characters?

I would add the following terms though
-They are done as sp boosts and not flat amounts of sp. Something along the lines of 2x or 3x sp for 30 days
-They are cash only purchases to prevent plex prices from going through the roof

Edit: better yet allow 2x or 3x boosts to be purchased as sellable licenses for $5 more the same as plex.


Read up about Cerebral Accelerators.
Find out that its already there.
Find out that your post is thus redundant and stupid.



Your edit is as stupid as the OP. It's the same thing minus the money to PLEX conersion and thus is Pay2Win. If you want that go play any dime in a dozen MMOs out there.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#95 - 2014-04-07 14:23:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
I see no issues with this... I mean we do already have the character bazaar so why not allow people to pay to boost their own created characters?
Because unlike the character bazaar, it bypasses the mechanics that ensure that you can't get skills faster by paying for it compared to not paying for it. Also, unlike the character bazaar, it completely wrecks the character ecology. Also, unlike the character bazaar, it benefits existing characters (i.e. old players) far more than it does new characters.

If you want to train faster, then just ask CCP to make training faster. Don't invent this idiotic pay-to-skip-mechanics scheme that does horrible things to the game and mechanics balance.

Because that's really what these ideas boil down to: the notion that “I don't want to be subject to the same mechanics everyone else is subject to — please let me pay to not play the same game as everyone else.” The very notion that drives the idea is also the very reason why it's an obviously hideously stupid idea.


Who cares if you can pay to earn skills faster? The pay to win is already very prevalent in eve i can't see this being an issue over character or plex sales for usd.

30 day 2x boost $15
30 day 3x boost $30

So if you want a 3x boost that's $45 a month to sub 1 account but essentially condenses 3 months worth of sp into 1 month. I hardly think having someone generate 4.5m sp instead of 1.5m in a month is going to be earth shattering for your precious ecology.

Who says it shouldn't benefit everyone new and old?

... Between plexs and character bazaar you can pretty much pay to skip any game mechanic you wish.

The big win is it's another revenue stream for ccp which allows them to keep the doors open and the updates coming.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#96 - 2014-04-07 14:26:13 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:
The pay to win is already very prevalent in eve


Again, please explain what you consider "winning" in EvE

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Salvos Rhoska
#97 - 2014-04-07 14:45:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
I'd be ok with SP acceleration for money or even PLEX.

Wouldn't even make a difference to Bazaar rates, since though the toons train faster, they still cost the same to train for that total SP anyways.

I wouldn't buy it, but doesn't bother me one bit if someone else would.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2014-04-07 14:55:15 UTC
Winning at EVE is when you successfully quit & never return, so sure, pay CCP a bunch of money to stop playing I guess.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#99 - 2014-04-07 14:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I think the OP has the wording a little wrong.
The term is "It pays to win" when it comes to Eve.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#100 - 2014-04-07 15:32:54 UTC
I have quit every game I tried that had a pay to win mechanic. It is for lazy developers and even lazier players and completely takes away any sense of achievement from a game.