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[news] Ishukone actions called into question after further talks with
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Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#21 - 2014-04-05 06:53:19 UTC
Goa Chai wrote:
Aikur Kuvas wrote:
Towards the Federation? Due to the fact that they decided that we weren't allowed to be different and live in peace, so they bombed our planet.
Not before the Caldari commited the terrorist act of sabotaging Nouvelle Rouvenor, which if I remember my Cal-Gal War history correctly was in response to a Federation blockade of gates leading to previously secret Caldari bases who's existence was withheld from the Federation.

Not that it's really our place to comment on something that happened so long ago, but did the Caldari really think they could get away with constructing secret bases in the Luminaire system so close to Gallente Prime and not have the Federation take action against it, or that sabotaging a domed city killing half a million people would end the blockade preventing access to said bases? And while personally I think the attack on Caldari Prime was an excessive response, one can hardly say it was an unprovoked response.

Can't disagree on the sequence of events, but lumping "Caldari" under Dragonaurs (a group internationally recognized as ultra nationalist terrorists), who were, as a matter of historic record, the perpetrators of that ****** up act, is a lot like us saying "Gallente" in blanket use when referring to Admiral Noir, and that crazy bastards decision to ram a Nyx into Ishukone HQ during peace talks. It's a distinction both sides can appreciate, I think, even in the perspective of events that took place two centuries ago.
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-04-05 07:05:52 UTC
I think this is a pretty predictable reaction from the CEP. I can think of few entities besides the State that could truly appreciate how much a foreign nation can accomplish when they have a man on the inside.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2014-04-05 07:11:32 UTC
And on it goes - with one side demanding answers and the other refusing them.

How is Ishukone aiming to protect Caldari culture on Home? What part does it's negotiations with the Federation play in them? Are the Patriot bloc really short-sighted enough to sabotage negotiations that are in the best interests of all Caldari over partisan politics?

Nobody here knows...

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Aikur Kuvas
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-04-05 07:27:14 UTC
Agiri Falken wrote:
Goa Chai wrote:
Aikur Kuvas wrote:
Towards the Federation? Due to the fact that they decided that we weren't allowed to be different and live in peace, so they bombed our planet.
Not before the Caldari commited the terrorist act of sabotaging Nouvelle Rouvenor, which if I remember my Cal-Gal War history correctly was in response to a Federation blockade of gates leading to previously secret Caldari bases who's existence was withheld from the Federation.

Not that it's really our place to comment on something that happened so long ago, but did the Caldari really think they could get away with constructing secret bases in the Luminaire system so close to Gallente Prime and not have the Federation take action against it, or that sabotaging a domed city killing half a million people would end the blockade preventing access to said bases? And while personally I think the attack on Caldari Prime was an excessive response, one can hardly say it was an unprovoked response.

Can't disagree on the sequence of events, but lumping "Caldari" under Dragonaurs (a group internationally recognized as ultra nationalist terrorists), who were, as a matter of historic record, the perpetrators of that ****** up act, is a lot like us saying "Gallente" in blanket use when referring to Admiral Noir, and that crazy bastards decision to ram a Nyx into Ishukone HQ during peace talks. It's a distinction both sides can appreciate, I think, even in the perspective of events that took place two centuries ago.


I do believe I have some history to refresh myself on.

"A fire-eater must eat fire, even if he has to kindle it himself." - Mercenary Proverb
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#25 - 2014-04-05 07:34:34 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
And on it goes - with one side demanding answers and the other refusing them.

How is Ishukone aiming to protect Caldari culture on Home? What part does it's negotiations with the Federation play in them? Are the Patriot bloc really short-sighted enough to sabotage negotiations that are in the best interests of all Caldari over partisan politics?

Nobody here knows...

Bingo. The great circle of bullshit, kirjuun. Time will tell how this ends.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-04-05 07:51:09 UTC
I would like to remind everyone, that Dragonaurs didn't commit any terror acts in the last two centuries, and those, who committed them are long dead.
Calling Caldari patriot guerrilla fighters as terrorist thus is a sign of being brainwashed by gallentean propaganda.
Those "Caldari", who call Dragonaurs as terrorists, are not Caldari, but rather gallentean spies or bootlickers.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-04-05 07:55:23 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
And on it goes - with one side demanding answers and the other refusing them.

How is Ishukone aiming to protect Caldari culture on Home? What part does it's negotiations with the Federation play in them? Are the Patriot bloc really short-sighted enough to sabotage negotiations that are in the best interests of all Caldari over partisan politics?

Nobody here knows...

The only way to protect Caldari culture on Home is to remove that scum, that was writing "Exterminate Caldari" on our monuments and defacing Caldari relics. I am speaking, of course, about gallenteans.
While they are present on our planet, our culture is under threat.
Our planet must be cleaned from their presence completely, by any means necessary.

Any diplomatic "resolution" will only delay the real solution, and is profitable only to gallentean side.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#28 - 2014-04-05 09:40:26 UTC
Why are the State and Federation still at war, hmmmmmm?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-04-05 11:03:37 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Why are the State and Federation still at war, hmmmmmm?


Federation still occupies almost half of our homeworld.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Wendrika
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-04-05 11:20:09 UTC
I supose this is not a good time to be working privately for the Ishukone. What a bummer! Just when I had finished transfering the Foundation assets from Heimatar to Lonetrek...
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#31 - 2014-04-05 13:45:50 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Why are the State and Federation still at war, hmmmmmm?


Ask CONCORD

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-04-05 14:27:16 UTC
What warrants this suspicion, exactly? Are Ishukone accused of having committed some crime against the stability of the State and the authority of the CEP under either the current leadership or the previous?

I doubt that KK and Lai Dai citizens would feel anything other than upset and offended if the integrity of their Okusaika were baselessly impugned in this way.

Either Ishukone are being entrusted with the safe-keeping and custodianship of our shared homeworld, or they are not. I would have said that contact and negotiation with the other involved party was an indication of responsible governorship rather than any nefarious agenda.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2014-04-05 18:16:06 UTC
Oh come on, suuolo. Why are the other Okusaiken suspicious when the black sheep of the State is having secret negotiations with our hereditary enemy?

Why do you think?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#34 - 2014-04-05 18:43:18 UTC
Tuulinen, haven't you yourself lamented how the others of the big eight forced Ishukone into the cold? The black sheep is of your making, and you've said as much before. Now, after ostracizing Ishukone for its rejection of the Provists, you use that same mistrust to justify investigations into Ishukone's dealings.

Do you really want to push Ishukone further away?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-04-05 19:33:31 UTC
To be fair, seven is a much prettier number than eight.
Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-04-05 19:36:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Anja Suorsa
If there is no wrongdoing then surely there is nothing to fear from an investigation; an investigation the CEP is well within it's rights to undertake.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#37 - 2014-04-05 19:54:46 UTC
Suorsa, would you gladly subject KK's books and operations to a thorough CEP review?

By this, I mean that this will hamper normal operations. A motivated political actor, what's more, will always find some irregularity to present as the damning evidence of whatever he or she pleases.

I expect to see mole hills made into the shape of the Kaalakiota Peaks.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Goa Chai
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-04-05 20:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Goa Chai
As an outsider concerning State politics perhaps it's not my place to say, but it seems rather short sighted for other Caldari corporations to be so critical towards the Ishukone corporation, after all it was them who developed the first hydrostatic capsules, and I believe they were also responsible for the Raven (or was it the Scorpion) class battleship which would go on to become a cornerstone of the Caldari military and capsuleers.

It would be a shame if other corporations within the State pushed a corporation like Ishukone too far, my understanding is that as far as Caldari corporations go Ishukone is quite liberal, I'm sure they would have a very bright and prosperous future were they to form partnerships with Gallentean corporations such as Roden Shipyards and Chemal Tech.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#39 - 2014-04-05 20:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Goa Chai wrote:
As an outsider concerning State politics perhaps it's not my place to say, but it seems rather short sighted for other Caldari corporations to be so critical towards the Ishukone corporation, after all it was them who developed the first hydrostatic capsules, and I believe they were also responsible for the Raven (or was it the Scorpion) class battleship which would go on to become a cornerstone of the Caldari military and capsuleers.

It would be a shame if other corporations within the State pushed a corporation like Ishukone too far, my understanding is that as far as Caldari corporations go Ishukone is quite liberal, I'm sure they would have a very bright and prosperous future were they to form partnerships with Gallentean corporations such as Roden Shipyards and Chemal Tech.


Not really. They'd lose all their Stateside assets to an armada of avenging death that would likely commit atrocities that would make the bombardment of Caldari Prime look like a few sailors coming down from the Orbital on shoreleave. Then there would be the bounty hunters and assassins that the other big Seven would turn loose on every Ishukone official who survived.

For the ones that got to Gallente space alive, they'd become a small fish in a huge pond as the other Gallente corporations fought to preserve their marketshare.

Besides which, there is a big difference between Liberal and Gallentean. I think you'd find Ishukone citizens wouldn't receive your gesture as a compliment, necessarily.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2014-04-05 20:52:40 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Tuulinen, haven't you yourself lamented how the others of the big eight forced Ishukone into the cold? The black sheep is of your making, and you've said as much before. Now, after ostracizing Ishukone for its rejection of the Provists, you use that same mistrust to justify investigations into Ishukone's dealings.

Do you really want to push Ishukone further away?


The situation is what it is, Priano-haani. I completely agree that Ishukone were pushed, but having a troubled past doesn't mean someone gets a free-pass.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.