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RLML - Why is it bad?

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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#41 - 2014-04-05 07:36:08 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Getting a dual rep thorax into structure is impressive - With less DPS (e.g. old RLML's) you may not have even broken his tank...


Some of that is a matter of 440dps applied perfectly and a dual reps general lack of EHP buffer to keep him in armour.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#42 - 2014-04-05 12:25:45 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
Getting a dual rep thorax into structure is impressive - With less DPS (e.g. old RLML's) you may not have even broken his tank...


Some of that is a matter of 440dps applied perfectly and a dual reps general lack of EHP buffer to keep him in armour.


True. Dual rep's seem to be coming a popular fit in PVP these days compared to the EHP 'Phase' (by phase i mean 4 years).
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#43 - 2014-04-07 02:25:04 UTC
Slightly off topic- wasn't there an idea on the drawing board for TC/TE missile variants? Something that would increase explosion velocity and/ or missile velocity perhaps? Explosion Radius is already assisted by TP.

I know this would bring up demands for TD to effect missiles and perhaps a revisit to flight time across the board, but it seems like such modules could be the proverbial silver bullet.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2014-04-08 00:57:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Slightly off topic- wasn't there an idea on the drawing board for TC/TE missile variants? Something that would increase explosion velocity and/ or missile velocity perhaps? Explosion Radius is already assisted by TP.

I know this would bring up demands for TD to effect missiles and perhaps a revisit to flight time across the board, but it seems like such modules could be the proverbial silver bullet.

The idea was that TC/TE and TDs would all have effects on missile performance but it was shot down by the community on the basis that it would make TDs standard fit on every ship and anything that couldn't spare the mid would become useless. However I feel the idea was viable even if they had to nerf TD base stats significantly and massively increase the bonus received by TD bonused hulls. There were other possibilities to make it work as well but no one was willing to work it through, the tone of the thread was very unpleasant in general. Fast forward six months or so and rapid light missiles are being used everywhere and CCP nerfs them because the community was not willing to allow TDs as a form of counter play. Not judging or blaming anyone for the fallout but this is why I supported the idea of letting TE/TC/TD affect missiles in the first place although I felt it would have had issues in the iteration initially given by CCP in F&I but it should have been doable.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#45 - 2014-04-08 01:28:10 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Slightly off topic- wasn't there an idea on the drawing board for TC/TE missile variants? Something that would increase explosion velocity and/ or missile velocity perhaps? Explosion Radius is already assisted by TP.

I know this would bring up demands for TD to effect missiles and perhaps a revisit to flight time across the board, but it seems like such modules could be the proverbial silver bullet.

The idea was that TC/TE and TDs would all have effects on missile performance but it was shot down by the community on the basis that it would make TDs standard fit on every ship and anything that couldn't spare the mid would become useless. However I feel the idea was viable even if they had to nerf TD base stats significantly and massively increase the bonus received by TD bonused hulls. There were other possibilities to make it work as well but no one was willing to work it through, the tone of the thread was very unpleasant in general. Fast forward six months or so and rapid light missiles are being used everywhere and CCP nerfs them because the community was not willing to allow TDs as a form of counter play. Not judging or blaming anyone for the fallout but this is why I supported the idea of letting TE/TC/TD affect missiles in the first place although I felt it would have had issues in the iteration initially given by CCP in F&I but it should have been doable.


Until TD's effect missiles, TE's can't effect them.

Also, missiles are a guaranteed hit - so a missile based TE would be insanely more effective on larger missile types: Back to the bad old days of torp'ing frigs?
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2014-04-08 01:36:08 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Slightly off topic- wasn't there an idea on the drawing board for TC/TE missile variants? Something that would increase explosion velocity and/ or missile velocity perhaps? Explosion Radius is already assisted by TP.

I know this would bring up demands for TD to effect missiles and perhaps a revisit to flight time across the board, but it seems like such modules could be the proverbial silver bullet.

The idea was that TC/TE and TDs would all have effects on missile performance but it was shot down by the community on the basis that it would make TDs standard fit on every ship and anything that couldn't spare the mid would become useless. However I feel the idea was viable even if they had to nerf TD base stats significantly and massively increase the bonus received by TD bonused hulls. There were other possibilities to make it work as well but no one was willing to work it through, the tone of the thread was very unpleasant in general. Fast forward six months or so and rapid light missiles are being used everywhere and CCP nerfs them because the community was not willing to allow TDs as a form of counter play. Not judging or blaming anyone for the fallout but this is why I supported the idea of letting TE/TC/TD affect missiles in the first place although I felt it would have had issues in the iteration initially given by CCP in F&I but it should have been doable.


Until TD's effect missiles, TE's can't effect them.

Also, missiles are a guaranteed hit - so a missile based TE would be insanely more effective on larger missile types: Back to the bad old days of torp'ing frigs?

I'm pretty sure I didn't suggest one should happen without the other and if I did I apologize for the confusion. Also I was not describing my entire position on the subject since it is not actually up for discussion as far as I'm aware. If CCP comes back to the issue I will weigh in again in full in that thread.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-04-08 04:42:34 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


because people were used to being able to use the previously somewhat OP RLML to murder frigates more easily. Now they have to think a bit, and you know how angry get when they're asked to do that.



No because they are plain ****.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#48 - 2014-04-08 17:19:33 UTC
The biggest problem I have with them is there are so few gunships with utility missile slots to make use of them.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#49 - 2014-04-10 01:58:08 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:

It's a joke in very poor form. I say it a thousand times, if they want a front-loaded dps system then make it like SRM from MWLL. All 20-30 charges expended instantly.


This would be amazing. You could primary a cruiser, take it out in 1 salvo, wait 35 seconds, then go for another one. That cruiser would probably have taken longer than 35 seconds to kill using current mechanics.

I'd love to see the blob tactics, a RLML Caracal currently does 825 volley with navy inferno and 3 BCUIIs, so multiplying that by 20 gives you 16,500 alpha strike. This is significant, especially when you consider Caracals are cheap and can do this out to 60km+.

This would be all the benefits of Drake fleet combined with the benefits of Alphafleet. I approve of this idea. Sure, a 35 second waiting time is kind of long, but arty fleets might have waited 16-20 seconds to make sure everyone could refire, and having your damage frontloaded as an alpha strike is more productive at breaking enemy logistics and nuking capitals.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#50 - 2014-04-10 02:41:09 UTC
High sec gankers would wet their pants at the thought of a 16.5k alpha from a 20ish million ship. It would completely break suicide ganking, making it so cheap that you could gank freighters just for the tears and lulz.
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