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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Too few , too slow.

Author
Naomi Anthar
#1 - 2014-04-04 23:14:34 UTC
Let's be honest ... there are too few changes in this game, they also take ages to actually get implented in this game.

I don't want to be harsh CCP , but move your asses. For example changing few numbers and moving one slot from high to low in succubus took you few damn years. Hell you are still in early phase of doing this.

It's not just pirate ships. It's overral slowass process of improving game.

I know sometimes it's wise to think about something for longer time, rather than breaking stuff - more than actually fixing it. But there are limits, speaking of t3 nerf or whatever rebalance - you were talking about it so long time ago. That sometimes i almost forget you plan to do this.

I will be blantly harsh here : you are just lazy. You are not even designing new ships - you just tweaking some numbers on those that already exist. How much time it can take ? Yeah i know you cannot just throw random numbers and patch game next day. But i'm sure you don't need YEARS to do this at the same time.

And no it's not rant - because here comes an idea :

What about you hire even more people to do this if necessary - although it's laughable to me that you need entire team for example to change tracking speed to falloff on rifter for example.

I'm not talking about changing every ship every day or week. Nah ... but sometimes you just need to shake up stuff, so things don't start to be boring like a hell.

I'm not trolling here and i'm completly serious. Start improving game at faster rate. There are plenty of ideas how you can help this game from fellow players(some good some bad tho). There are places where your attention is necessary - for example FW and it's ******** mechanics.

How long before you pay attention to how badly FW works, where only farms counts and standard fw fit is stabs + cloak. Unless you run so exciting pve fw missions then its bomber.

I ask HOW much time ?

Game is sandbox - i got it. But you can AND you should move your ass. Because stuff gets boring pretty fast. And other game developers don't sleep at the same time.

Gives us excitement - what about navy destroyers ? New ships - some new fun ... reason to log in. etc

PS. Blog about drones cool - but it's still the same drones with tweaked numbers. Really do something.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2014-04-04 23:28:51 UTC
Blizzard chucks out new features whether they have been thought through or not. they also dnt mind releasing half baked and broken ideas either. Perhaps u should play their games.


EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2014-04-04 23:42:43 UTC
You say this is not rant. I find that to be a false statement.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#4 - 2014-04-04 23:55:15 UTC
Sadly ranting is prohibited, although some of your points have some merit.

I like the slow and sadly pace of ccp, but I think they are a little too slow because they are focusing on non eve projects.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-04-05 00:01:00 UTC
Because updating 10 year old code that has grown organically rather then built with sound architecture due to the nature of the game is easy to fix, update, or build on.

People who say this kinda stuff have no idea what they're talking about so I have to assume you just don't get it.

Further you don't just ask them to change the way the game works, but to change their entire business model just so you can have faster updates.

The ship update has only been going on for about 2 years and there is still more to add. Now here we don't necessarily have old code to contend with so why is that taking so long you might ask? Testing and balance. You can't exactly test an MMO with a typical quality assurance team, you just don't have the masses for it. Even though they do test this way it is in no way indicative of how the player base will handle it.

The fact that they would go through and make sweeping changes to dozens of ships at a time and play them out over relatively small amounts of time is actually proof that they are working both efficiently and quickly. At no point has one ship gotten updated and come out entirely over powered, and if it was overpowered it was looked at and changed for more balance and I don't think those are the last updates we will see even on ships that have already been changed up.

Faction and T2 ships are even more focused or unique and require more dev time to work on and test so it isnt surprising those took so long to be covered. And surprise surprise the capital ships that fly all around NS and the mechanics that surround them are up for a balance pass last due to the complexity of their operations in normal null life.
Naomi Anthar
#6 - 2014-04-05 00:16:08 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Blizzard chucks out new features whether they have been thought through or not. they also dnt mind releasing half baked and broken ideas either. Perhaps u should play their games.




I actually did play some blizz games. And indeed some were best games i was ever playing in my life.
And for that i will respect them - just to name warcraft I , warcraft II , starcraft I , diablo I & II.
Those games were/are legends. And they were not rushed nor they were packed with many expansions/changes.

Actually there was hardly any stuff adjust, as games were very good to start with.

What you actually wanted to say was "EA chucks out ... ".
Nah i don't play those.

Perhaps i'm actually right ? Never though it ? That i may die from age before CCP will help FW with ideas of timers reset in plexes or anything - but improve gameplay there ? Quiet possibly. I'm not old, but at that rate it may not happen in this millenium if at all.

Sanbox is sandbox ... but sometimes you may add few new tools to sandbox. That is what i'm asking for. Not another rifter incarnation with diffrent bonus.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#7 - 2014-04-05 00:26:14 UTC
yes, i noticed u left out any blizzard game made in the last ten years...gg

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Naomi Anthar
#8 - 2014-04-05 00:42:38 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
yes, i noticed u left out any blizzard game made in the last ten years...gg


And so what ? Still they made great games in time, go on and deny this.
Sure they may not appeal me with the stuff, they do now. But you just made joke from yourself by putting most successful gaming company ever as example of making bad games.

Like it or not they made some best games ever with insane longevity. SC was alive for so many years ... hell it would even live longer if not all that SC 2 ...

But let's not turn this topic into - are blizz games good or not. Because that was not my intention , rather your uncessary addition.

I'm discusing my idea of speeding up development process in EvE online. Feel free to disagree and give me idea why you don't like it. But mind that i would love to hear why you think so. For example why you need few years to adjust few numbers in few ships ? It's not like you need to mess with legacy code at all to swap med slot with low , etc.

Be constructive, your "go play blizz games" is actually nothing more than trolling. But i won't bother reporting it. Just don't make 3rd useless post. I still believe in you dude - you still can say something useful (or maybe not).
Sigras
Conglomo
#9 - 2014-04-05 01:03:49 UTC
I would much rather CCP be more like valve and less like EA than the other way around. I dont need half baked ideas chucked into my game every 3 months.

Im happy to wait until half life 3 is done for them to release it rather than play battlefield 4 in its current unplayable state.

No, less good features is better than more crappy ones.

And yes, the ship rebalance and drone rebalance are both adding a ton of tools to the sandbox. Before the rebalance how many people did you see flying a non rifter T1 frigate? or any gallente ship? or a prophecy? These are all tools that have technically been added to the game because nobody used them before so they may as well not have existed...
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-04-05 01:04:34 UTC
You say be constructive but you attack a person that wasn't being constructive instead of just ignoring them.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#11 - 2014-04-05 01:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Lyra Gerie wrote:
Because updating 10 year old code that has grown organically rather then built with sound architecture due to the nature of the game is easy to fix, update, or build on.

This is almost entirely the problem.

OP... check out the latest CSM minutes. Most of the things that CCP wants to do it can't do (because they are still working out the nightmare that is legacy code)... and then there is other stuff they simply don't know what to do with (because they can't come up with an alternative that will be particularly effective, players won't horribly abuse, or some combination of the two).


As far as ship balancing... long periods of time pass between iterations because...

- every last facet and variable must be tested... lest the DEVs create a new FoTY and have to revisit the ship soon after re-releasing it.
- they also have to watch and see how the ships they previously balanced are working out. New combat metas often take months to properly solidify.
- it's easier and safer to work on one select group at a time versus change everything all at once. Granted... it's not terribly efficient... but it produces better results in the long run.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#12 - 2014-04-05 01:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
i didnt think i had to spell it out to u.

blizzard chucks out new content to their player base whether its finished or not, whether its good or not. thats because its player base is largely made up of players that sounds like u 'GIVE ME MOAR STUFFS NAOWSS!!!' and once they've chucked it out, the feature is left broken for...how long was the real money auction left in diablo 3?? where as CCP come back to the ships they've recently rebalanced for tweaks inspired by player feedback.

and by trying to appease their whining players, Blizzard have not made a good game in 10 years. lets hope CCP dnt follow them and ur 'advice' and end up releasing updates like this is some diablo 3 in space. Blizzard were a good games company.

the ship rebalance is a massive project. to call it adjusting 'few numbers in few ships' is disingenuous, or ur a bit dim. its every ship, and it needs to be playtested in private, then play tested in on sisi and then gradually released to greater public. and then possibly tweaked soon after. all the while taking the time to collect player feedback.

take the domi which was changed after its release onto TQ. T1 cruisers and frigs. add to this that the ship rebalance is also adding ships like the venture and faction BC's and that its being done by a mere handful of devs, including newer devs like Rise.

CCP always said it was going to take years.

if its not happening fast enough for u, unsub and come back after a couple years. no one is going to miss ur whining arse.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
#13 - 2014-04-05 01:31:55 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Game is sandbox - i got it. But you can AND you should move your ass. Because stuff gets boring pretty fast. And other game developers don't sleep at the same time.

Gives us excitement - what about navy destroyers ? New ships - some new fun ... reason to log in. etc


I'm going to assume this is your main character and that you've only been in the game almost 18 months with a strong focus around low sec small scale pvp with not one instance from what I could see from zkillboard / battleclinic of ever having combat in null sec. considering how long you've been in the game I'd love to assume that you know this game very well but unfortunately I can not so I'm going to ask you.

how well do you know this game? have you gained experience through out the time you've been playing to explore all features and understand them to the point where if someone asked for your advice on something in particular you'd feel 100% sure that you're giving good advice that will help them?

I'm writing this not to troll you but to show you that there may be changes that are being introduced in the game that don't even apply to your style of game play thus you don't even check or even notice them. The main thing I have noticed with ccp like any other mmo company is they don't always advertise the changes they add and love ninja'n a stealth change here and there too. The one thing I am certain about with those changes is that ccp actually makes sure those changes are good enough to put onto the main server unlike many other mmo's which is where the fear of rollbacks has come from.
Coyote Laughing
#14 - 2014-04-05 01:51:37 UTC
I think CCP should stop throwing good resources after bad on Dust 514.

It's not just a matter of assigning a separate programming team - both games are suffering as a result.

The DVD of my PS3 died after 18 months and I can't even play registered games on it.

With the PS4 coming out, why would I want to buy another SONY Player Owned Structure?

Either expand the platforms to what the majority of EVE players use, or just put your vision back in the box until the technology improves.

l8r \o/