Warfare & Tactics

Hey guys ,

O sure i could have asked this in ships&modules but i know il get better answers from my likeminded pvp hungry peeps in here.


So someone told me that normaly you can.t get under small guns , meaning ofc they will always track you even if for lesser dmg. It happened to me whrn i was using a slasher and tackled a coercer , ab on scram web and a td with tracking disruptor fitted , was orbiting him at 500 at nearly 800 m/ s speed... And the guy was still hiting me! Lol..

Another thing was , yet again in my slasher but this time i had 200mm ac's , i was scramed but not webbed so again i orbited at 500 to mitigate dmg taken from an incursus ( again had a td on ) , was tanking fine but surprise... I was the one barely hiting the dude...like wtf?

So then i realized that even though the target was slow , i was going to fast for my guns to spin around and track which is more or less the same thing if the target was moving to fast and i was slower..


So basicly what i am asking is that , is it worth it to fit the bigger guns of the platform because they have the better dps , or go with the smallest cause they have better tracking which means better actual dps?

Same goes for blasters and pulses , i for one prefer the lowest size because i think having faster rate of fire and better tracking means more actual dps .. but is it rly?


Do excuse my grammar . Thanks

Are you talking about fitting larger guns on your frigate? As in, medium and big? It's not gonna work.

As for the getting under the guns part, while it's good that your target can't hit you, you may find that you can't hit your target as well if you are going too fast. This depends on what turrets you are using.

Basicly, it's about finding the sweet spot between barely getting hit and be able to proyect your OWN damage as well.After all, why would you gimp yourself and your target as well? Only reason to do so is if you are the ''hero'' tackle so that you can pin the target down while waiting for the rest of the gang.

Coercer got great tracking

But yeah, fitting the biggest guns is not always the best option when tracking comes into play. Back in the good old rifter days it was often normal to fit 150mm instead of the 200mm because tracking was more important.

An ab fit slasher would likewise benefit from 150mm over 200mm. The small sig and fast speed makes tight orbits one of it's strengths.

Better off staying with medium guns but then using dual webs.

Other people maybe have had success with it but I cannot ever see using smaller guns than the ship gets bonuses for a good idea. (Drone boats being the obvious exception)

I can only give a couple of examples of ships I have used.

#1. Is an old mission Rokh. I started out with 425's (Because they're huge!) but eventually went to 350's. They track better, so more 'applied' dps.

#2. PvP roaming Hurricanes. Same thing, I started with 425's,and back then most targets would be other BC and BS fleets. I could pull range and make those guns sing. But small ships were always an issue.
Then one night we heard of a Cruiser/Frigate gang, and we took off hunting them. I fitted 220's and was insta popping frigates and still putting full damage on the bigger ships.
I have never fitted another 425 since then....

I like 250 rails just fine. Probly wouldn't adjust down.
I always fit Neutrons if possible
I always fit the heaviest Pulse I can fit.

I call them 'hats'
My Logistics hat
My Recon/Falcon hat
My Tengu hat
My Blaster Megathron hat
etc
etc
To be fair. When I fit a ship, I have a style in mind of how I'm going to pilot that fit. In those two examples, smaller guns just made me more versatile. And more dangerous. I think some fits revolve around what 'hat' your wearing that night.

Well i've recently had another fight where Td's fitted with tracking speed script is virtually useless againts small gun platforms . Granted my target was a thrasher using faction ammo but he was using 200's .

I had my crucifier with a Td , overheated the TD with tracking speed disrupt script ... still useless , it should have mitigated more then half the incoming dmg on paper but .. it didnt .


I know the thrasher has a major bonus towards tracking but still , kindah makes you wonder , why bother fiting a td for close brawl at all

I did some sims on EFT using a TD 200mm AC slasher vs a standard Incursus brawler with neutrons. Even with 2 tracking rigs and overheated TD the slasher doesn't really gain a dps advantage anywhere in brawl range. So yeh tracking scripted TD seems pretty bad for frig v frig.

TD's in Frigate vs Frigate PvP is actually quiet useful, it all depends what script you have loaded and what guns you have fitted.

A Firetail fitted with a TD & 200mm autocannons for example:

- Any blaster frigs = load optimal range script & keep out of range from his guns.
- Autocannon = Same as above
- Pulse Lasers = Same as above

- Artillery = load tracking disruptor script
- Beam lasers = Same as above
- Rails = Same as above

Missle/Rockets... well you're screwed :P

If you put both Firetails fitted with 200mm Autos and only 1 of them with a TD, the Firetail with the TD will win. There is a notable difference.

Your example with the Thrasher (tracking speed bonus) isn't really an accurate assumption that TD's are useless. You were simply utilizing the wrong script. In the example of the Firetail, you would load up Barrage S ammo & the optimal range script and stay out of his range.

It's simply all about being fast enough to out-run their guns. TD's loaded with a tracking speed disruption script will not do the job in all cases, it's about when knowing to use either script in whatever scenario you are in.

I gonna quote F4bske here " Undertrack Thrasher, achievement unlocked."

How did he do that ?

Stiletto with sigtank + 1 TD ( of course lokilinks etc), so yes you can easy undertrack even small guns, all you have to do is have a high transversal or a sig of ~ 18metres in a close orbit with AB ( 1 TD also helps a lot).

I used a sigtanking condor some time ago with Halo imps, lokilinks and sigdrugs, result was ~ 11metres sig (+TD and shield booster to improve this tank for just in case situations), even drones/frigs or dessies with great tracking never landed a single hit if i was dualwebbed, however i still feared daredevils >:3

Regards
RC

I'm just going to reiterate the point others have already made about TDs having more than one script type. If you're up against something with small guns and a 50% tracking bonus, maybe try kiting them out with a range script. In particular, Thrashers only have three mids and typically shield tank in addition to simply being slow, so their range control will tend to be weak and their range bonus is nearly useless for autocannons. Chill at the edge of scram range and just watch their shots fall short.


As to the larger/smaller guns debate: it's very complicated and the correct answer will usually be unique to your situation. In general, larger guns have higher damage (especially alpha) and better projection at the expense of fitting and tracking. The extra raw damage will sometimes compensate for their inferior ability to apply damage. If you're flying an artillery Tornado, for example, you want to use 1400s instead of 1200s because alpha and range are the only things you really care about.