These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The next Great War will be between Goons and .... who?

First post
Author
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#81 - 2014-04-04 08:33:16 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:


Why?


Why what exactly?


Why is it sad?

But now;

Why do you waste a post asking that when if you read your own post, then mine replying to it, its pretty obvious why what.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#82 - 2014-04-04 08:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
1) CFC civil war


Although I have often stated this is a certainty sooner or later (although we did have one already with Test), I personally think that we've missed the boat, and this might not be possible any more. In the current state of Nullsec, we couldn't have a civil war in isolation - a splintering of our power-base would result in all the vultures who are praying for our fall to descend, and result in either us having to reform voltron to deal with the external threat, see both sides taken apart piecemeal, or see the smaller piece absorbed my the other block in order to take out the larger piece.

If the other powers in Null aren't willing to topple us the hard way, we are more-or-less completely reliant on a sov redesign to shift the balance of power, or a high-level plug pull. That said, every other dominating power had to be pulled down the hard way - the Northern Coalition, the DRF, both were pulled apart by ships in space, so it shouldn't be too upsetting to think we will have to be done in the same way (granted, both were rotten in the core to different degrees, but until you apply pressure, how do you know we aren't?)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#83 - 2014-04-04 08:53:55 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:

If the other powers in Null aren't willing to topple us the hard way, we are more-or-less completely reliant on a sov redesign to shift the balance of power, or a high-level plug pull.


The latter is more likely and desirable than the former, I would say, if the aggregate of all opinions were to be taken into account.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Salvos Rhoska
#84 - 2014-04-04 09:35:20 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Why do you waste a post asking that when if you read your own post, then mine replying to it, its pretty obvious why what.


Your post implied that anything you had said wasn't already in my post.
It was. I was and am already aware exactly of what you speak of in yours.

You explained, exactly, why it is sad, as I observed it to be, and then you ask "why?".
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#85 - 2014-04-04 09:39:38 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


You explained, exactly, why it is sad, as I observed it to be, and then you ask "why?".


I explained what I viewed the situation to be, and even if I observe it the same way as you do, I dont find it sad, I find it appropriate to the situation.

I asked you why you think it is sad rather thatn right and proper.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Solecist Project
#86 - 2014-04-04 09:44:47 UTC
Why not Zoidberg?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Salvos Rhoska
#87 - 2014-04-04 11:43:47 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You explained, exactly, why it is sad, as I observed it to be, and then you ask "why?".
I explained what I viewed the situation to be, and even if I observe it the same way as you do, I dont find it sad, I find it appropriate to the situation. I asked you why you think it is sad rather thatn right and proper.


I do find it sad, and so do also, to my understanding, the relevant powers that be.

It is the status quo, and to your eyes perhaps "right and proper", but it is NO FUN.

A perfect dilemma, and poetic justice, but everyone wants a way out.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#88 - 2014-04-04 11:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

I do find it sad, and so do also, to my understanding, the relevant powers that be.

It is the status quo, and to your eyes perhaps "right and proper", but it is NO FUN.

A perfect dilemma, and poetic justice, but everyone wants a way out.


Yes thats all very well but WHY do you think its sad? Because its no fun for you?

Mining is no fun for me, but I accept that it has to exist because some people like it and it provides materials for manufacturing.

You are saying that you want the experiment to be tampered with because you dont like the result, because it doesnt suit you.

I dont know where you get the idea that a) there are "powers that be" or b) if there are, why they dont want a doughnut.

Did the dialogue at the start of the Rubicon trailer pass you by?

"The Empires are afraid.... their grip on power is crumbling..."

Player Owned Empires. That sounds like pretty good fun to me.

It is the only logical choice unless you wish The Powers That Be (sic) to ****** your freedom and usher in Themepark Universe by resetting any Alliance that becomes too successful

(EDIT: Oh come on, I wasnt using ****** prejoratively, I was using it appropriately. You know, the root word of "retro" in "retro-rocket")

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Rainbow Dash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-04-04 12:10:39 UTC
A high level plug pull wouldn't even really do anything to the CFC except inconvenience it. There are no external threats to the CFC right now that could claim a large amount of sov even if every single system dropped tomorrow. They'd have to regrind the sov and would lose a lot of isk, but it would be far from a deathblow.

I mean, N3 isn't a threat (let's be honest) and PL has a treaty. No one else is even close to CFC levels of power.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#90 - 2014-04-04 12:27:50 UTC
Rainbow Dash wrote:
A high level plug pull wouldn't even really do anything to the CFC except inconvenience it. There are no external threats to the CFC right now that could claim a large amount of sov even if every single system dropped tomorrow. They'd have to regrind the sov and would lose a lot of isk, but it would be far from a deathblow.


Oh, I agree; I didn't really mean in a "oops, sov bills are hard" kind of way, because I agree, that wouldn't do more than give everyone a week of frenetic activity. I mean't more along the lines of the very top men quitting or deciding a radical change of direction because of "**** it, why not". I'm sure you'd agree, if GSF just went "actually, lets do something else. FA, you are now in charge" and swaggered off in to the sunset, that would change the status quo considerably (unlikely as that series of events might be, but then again, I also mentioned the equally unlikely "CCP does something about the sov situation" P)
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#91 - 2014-04-04 13:11:33 UTC
I am not sure if people are aware of this, but currently i am just holding the line against an enemy faction called "Guristas". They are pretty resilient , i give them that. But fortunately they fit their ships ****** (stuff i loot from the wrecks, omfg!). But they keep on coming without pauze. :(
Spurty
#92 - 2014-04-04 13:31:21 UTC
Technology doesn't exist to allow it.

There will be no 50,000 vs 50,000 war guys. Not because we don't want it or are afraid to try but more, it's not possible due to out of game limitations (hardware can not support it).

Put another way, take a chess board and fill every square with white pieces. Then look for an opponent to "come at me bro".

You look stoppid even asking.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#93 - 2014-04-04 13:53:04 UTC
Spurty wrote:


You look stoppid even asking.


Wee shore due

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2014-04-04 14:21:55 UTC
our ancient enemy, highsec

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Salvos Rhoska
#95 - 2014-04-04 14:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Weaselior wrote:
our ancient enemy, highsec


There is truth to this, but not in the conventionally held sense (and I dont thinkw Weaselior falls for that either).
Its not that there is some separate central power bloc sitting in high-sec defending its interests.
It doesn have to. NPCs do it for them.

High-sec is, in many ways, too safe. Ironically muchof what is "wrong"in null sec, is actually a result of high-sec being as it is ie:NPC secured.

If High-sec was less restrictive, it could infact congeal as a force capable of threatening Null..
Seems counter-intuitive, but it has to do with the risk/profit balances in different sectors being out of whack.
Opening that flood gate would be extremely dangerous, but it could also save the game.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#96 - 2014-04-04 14:38:05 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
our ancient enemy, highsec


There is truth to this, but not in the conventionally held sense (and I dont thinkw Weaselior falls for that either).
Its not that there is some separate central power bloc sitting in high-sec defending its interests.
It doesn have to. NPCs do it for them.

High-sec is, in many ways, too safe. Ironically muchof what is "wrong"in null sec, is actually a result of high-sec being as it is ie:NPC secured.

If High-sec was less restrictive, it could infact congeal as a force capable of threatening Null.
Seems counter-intuitive, but it has to do with the risk/profit balances in different sectors being out of whack.



Thanks for ignoring my response to your previous statement Salvos.

Very polite of you

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Salvos Rhoska
#97 - 2014-04-04 14:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
our ancient enemy, highsec


There is truth to this, but not in the conventionally held sense (and I dont thinkw Weaselior falls for that either).
Its not that there is some separate central power bloc sitting in high-sec defending its interests.
It doesn have to. NPCs do it for them.

High-sec is, in many ways, too safe. Ironically muchof what is "wrong"in null sec, is actually a result of high-sec being as it is ie:NPC secured.

If High-sec was less restrictive, it could infact congeal as a force capable of threatening Null.
Seems counter-intuitive, but it has to do with the risk/profit balances in different sectors being out of whack.



Thanks for ignoring my response to your previous statement Salvos.

Very polite of you


I did not ignore it, I just have not yet responded to it.
Ive being trying to think of a way to simplify its expression for you to understand.
I actually wrote three drafts on my phone that all failed to send.

Are you so naive not to recognise who the "powers that be" are?
Do you not recognise that Goons are NOT HAPPY with this status quo?
Do you so misunderstand their Corp culture?

They WANT a challenge, but that does not mean they will give even one inch of what they have earned, without fighting for it.
They WANT CCP to change the game, but not in a way that ends up ruining it, and they already have contingencies in place to exploit many potential changes.

Nothing was worse for them, than what ended up being their reward of effectively "winning the game".
That of becoming fat asses sitting on so much space all you can do with it, is rent it to disgusting pubbies.

Now return to consider my two options earlier. It is incipient within Goons, that a civil war could erupt, but their Corp culture is so cohesive, so established, that not only is it very unlikely, but it would fracture their root community itself. We are, to my perception, nowhere near that kind of internal schism. Second option is a CCP change, but how do you make necessarily painful and detrimwntal changes to a sector of which the majority already exista under one umbrella? Player dissent would be enormous. Financial suicide.

Everyone is waiting for some genius solution that will drive the meta of this game to an unprecedented height, but how can you do that in a community and game that is already 10yrs entrenched?

EVE has dangerously plateued as a result of its own sandbox nature. Given enough time, say, another 20 years, CFC wouls invariably fall. But can the games population and life cycle last that long with the current status quo?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#98 - 2014-04-04 14:58:08 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

I did not ignore it, I just have not yet responded to it.

Then I apologise
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ive being trying to think of a way to simplify its expression for you to understand.

I sincerly hope that you have failed to grasp how insulting that sentence actually is.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Are you so naive not to recognise who the "powers that be" are?
Do you not recognise that Goons are NOT HAPPY with this status quo?
Do you so misunderstand their Corp culture?

They WANT a challenge, but that does not mean they will give even one inch of what they have earned, without fighting for it.
They WANT CCP to change the game, but not in a way that ends up ruining it, and they already have contingencies in place to exploit many potential changes.


Citations please for any of this. If you can show me where the CFC or GSF core are not happy with expanding their territory, I would liek to see it, as well as where CCP have stated they will block any attempt to form a powerblock that rivals an Empire. Ive already cited where they believe this will happen.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Nothing was worse for them, than what ended up being their reward of effectively "winning the game".
That of becoming fat asses sitting on so much space all you can do with it, is rent it to disgusting pubbies.

Once you have one Player Empire, that proves the theory that it is possible. Others will come. The Grand Work will never be complete, and if it is, as it was for The Amarr Empire, then what happened? The Jovians came and kicked over their sandcastles. You can't say that it would not be possible for a combattable NPC force to challenge any Empire. The Sanshas Incursions are in fact just this mechanism writ small.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Now return to consider my two options earlier. It is incipient within Goons, that a civil war could erupt, but their Corp culture is so cohesive, so established, that not only is it very unlikely, but it would fracture their root community itself. We are, to my perception, nowhere near that kind of internal schism. Second option is a CCP change, but how do you make necessarily painful and detrimwntal changes to a sector of which the majority already exista under one umbrella? Player dissent would be enormous. Financial suicide.

And so you accept that neither is civil war or CCP changing the game to that extent likely. Therefore, Player Empire before GSF dissolution?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Salvos Rhoska
#99 - 2014-04-04 15:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Citations please for any of this. If you can show me where the CFC or GSF core are not happy with expanding their territory, I would liek to see it


Ask them.

I dunno how you have managed to not see the obvious, both in implicit posts from Goon/CFC reps and from the meta situation overall. But on the benefit of the doubt, simply: Ask them yourself.

(I will disregard your notion that the Jove Empire would send NPC fleets to threaten Null. For so many reasons. Not the least of which would be the absolutely astronomical yield in wealth having NPC fleets showing up on your doorstep that are capable of threatening Null with its Titans and other massive ordnance. I can't even imagine the bounty....)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#100 - 2014-04-04 15:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Citations please for any of this. If you can show me where the CFC or GSF core are not happy with expanding their territory, I would liek to see it


Ask them.

I dunno how you have managed to not see the obvious, both in implicit posts from Goon/CFC reps and from the meta situation overall. But on the benefit of the doubt, simply: Ask them yourself.

(I will disregard your notion that the Jove Empire would send NPC fleets to threaten Null. For so many reasons. Not the least of which would be the absolutely astronomical yield in wealth having NPC fleets showing up on your doorstep that are capable of threatening Null with its Titans and other massive ordnance. I can't even imagine the bounty....)


Im asking you, because you have clearly read posts I have not and I have no intention of looking through the forum for them when you knwo where they are

As for the bounties, what bounty?

The only bounty would be what the Empire under attack would put on them.

You think the NPC empires or at least what was left of them put a bounty on a force that was trying to kill their most hated enemies?

And because it is "obvious" to you does not mean that I follow your train of thought. What I have stated is obvious to me. I can accept you disagree, I would be obliged if you could extend me the courtesy.

Speaking of courtesy, Im going to assume you forgot by accident the apology you meant to add in that post for your insult and forgive you anyway.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann