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Reclaiming Skill Points
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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-04-03 20:13:24 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.

This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly.

What constitutes a mistake in training? Even doing something silly like training lasers when you fly Minmatar will at one point be usable.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#22 - 2014-04-03 20:15:07 UTC
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
These are fair points that are presented in a polite, sensible manner. unlike other rude people that just like to troll.


Oh come on, you started this thread to troll, didn't you? If not, I refer you to my comment on your last brilliant idea.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#23 - 2014-04-03 20:15:52 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
This would essentially make training choices and SP as a whole redundant. Everybody would use their 1 remap a year to gain perfect skills in explo/combat/indy skill of their choice. This would always be the FotM skills leaving everybody with essentially the same abilities.

The choices you made and the path you took are what make your character unique. I firmly believe that the SP mechanism along with implants and remaps are fine the way they are. Skills that you once used are never wasted since you gained from them at the time. I actually think that I use about 90% of my 11.5 mil SP, your skills are what you as a player make of them and the only way they are wasted is if you ignore them yourself.


They do make your character unique but qat the same time almost every player i have spoken to had a traiing plan that was "all over the place" when they first joined the game. Once they join a decent corp then they get help and assistance with plans.

OK granted a 1 year remap maybe too much, but certainly a one off tweak would not be so bad.
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#24 - 2014-04-03 20:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Vartan Sarkisian
admiral root wrote:
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
These are fair points that are presented in a polite, sensible manner. unlike other rude people that just like to troll.


Oh come on, you started this thread to troll, didn't you? If not, I refer you to my comment on your last brilliant idea.


Admiral, I dont troll, you may not believe that, and if so I cannot help that opinion. I still dont think that that was a bad idea, in fact all you seem to be able to do is come out with snide comments that dont really offer much to anything.
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#25 - 2014-04-03 20:18:30 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I would agree if it could only ever happen once per character ever.

This would allow noobs to erase noob mistakes in training, but not allow willy nilly switching to FOTM instantly.

What constitutes a mistake in training? Even doing something silly like training lasers when you fly Minmatar will at one point be usable.


My thoughts were that sometimes you look at your traiing and think I wouldnt have done X, maybe based on how your gameplay has developed since you have been online, maybe pissed off with a nerf that has made skills you trained for redundant.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#26 - 2014-04-03 20:19:50 UTC
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
My thoughts were that sometimes you look at your traiing and think I wouldnt have done X, maybe based on how your gameplay has developed since you have been online, maybe pissed off with a nerf that has made skills you trained for redundant.


Actions have consequences, welcome to Eve, please drive carefully.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#27 - 2014-04-03 20:21:42 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
My thoughts were that sometimes you look at your traiing and think I wouldnt have done X, maybe based on how your gameplay has developed since you have been online, maybe pissed off with a nerf that has made skills you trained for redundant.


Actions have consequences, welcome to Eve, please drive carefully.


Indeed, and people that have been around a while know that, when your new the learning curve is massive, is it not? or am I wrong? so it would be nice to go back and rectify that, if not, then it needs to be covered more in the tutorials.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#28 - 2014-04-03 20:43:48 UTC
Read here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

And here. For more reasons why it's always going to be NO.

TL:DR In the words of Tippia:
Tippia wrote:
It removes the point of having skills to begin with.
It removes the point of having attributes.
It removes attribute implants from the game.
It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.
It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.
It removes planning and choice and consequences.
It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.
It kills character trading.
It massively boosts older characters over new ones.
It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#29 - 2014-04-03 23:28:09 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Read here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

And here. For more reasons why it's always going to be NO.

TL:DR In the words of Tippia:
Tippia wrote:
It removes the point of having skills to begin with.
It removes the point of having attributes.
It removes attribute implants from the game.
It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.
It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.
It removes planning and choice and consequences.
It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.
It kills character trading.
It massively boosts older characters over new ones.
It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.


If you give a man a fish, you only feed him for a day!

@ Op, we aren't trolling you when we tell you to do a forum search before reposting one of the most commonly proposed ideas.

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#30 - 2014-04-03 23:32:03 UTC
I cannot support this even though it would grant me a massive advantage.

I'm afraid that I feel this suggestion would make the training process and the choices we make in relation to it pointless not to mention the contribution it would make to the already lamentable amount of homogenisation that has occurred in EvE already.

I would rather see better tutorials and information for new players allowing them to make better and more intelligent choices.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#31 - 2014-04-04 04:01:39 UTC
Another issue...

What happens if someone removes a skill that was a pre-requisite for another skill they kept?

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
Khoul Ay'd
The Affiliation
#32 - 2014-04-04 04:02:09 UTC
NO! A thousand times NO!!! Eve is about decisions and consequences, if you do it you live with it. Permanently! EvilEvilEvil

The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#33 - 2014-04-04 09:38:21 UTC
SB Rico wrote:
Another issue...

What happens if someone removes a skill that was a pre-requisite for another skill they kept?

tbh, this is rather easy to fix, if one removes SP from a skill, then all the skills requiring it would also be removed.

kinda like linux dependencies, it is not hard to do, really....
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-04-04 09:43:34 UTC
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
This would essentially make training choices and SP as a whole redundant. Everybody would use their 1 remap a year to gain perfect skills in explo/combat/indy skill of their choice. This would always be the FotM skills leaving everybody with essentially the same abilities.

The choices you made and the path you took are what make your character unique. I firmly believe that the SP mechanism along with implants and remaps are fine the way they are. Skills that you once used are never wasted since you gained from them at the time. I actually think that I use about 90% of my 11.5 mil SP, your skills are what you as a player make of them and the only way they are wasted is if you ignore them yourself.


They do make your character unique but qat the same time almost every player i have spoken to had a traiing plan that was "all over the place" when they first joined the game. Once they join a decent corp then they get help and assistance with plans.

OK granted a 1 year remap maybe too much, but certainly a one off tweak would not be so bad.


My training plan has always been all over the place as I use a JIT training approach. Even if you training plan was undecided during your first few weeks how many SP can you really have misplaced? The focus on the first few weeks training should be put into the core basic skills, maybe the tutorials don't push this enough.

Having said that I trained missiles for a while and they got nerfed to death. I wouldn't want to be able to gain the sp back though as it'll probably be useful at some point. In Eve patience is the only virtue left...
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#35 - 2014-04-04 10:03:22 UTC
OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh?
Morukk Nuamzzar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-04-04 10:35:25 UTC
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh?


Oh but there will be another...
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#37 - 2014-04-04 11:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Vartan Sarkisian
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh?


Oh but there will be another...


I am sure there will, and ill look forward to a mixture of rude people that offer no real... well anything and those that put out decent replies... see ya next time.
Morukk Nuamzzar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-04-04 14:21:46 UTC
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh?

Oh but there will be another...

I am sure there will, and ill look forward to a mixture of rude people that offer no real... well anything and those that put out decent replies... see ya next time.

The only one rude here is you.
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#39 - 2014-04-04 14:47:40 UTC
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
OK, I understand everyone's point of view on it now, at least those that at least have helpful responses... think we'll chalk that one up as a no then huh?

Oh but there will be another...

I am sure there will, and ill look forward to a mixture of rude people that offer no real... well anything and those that put out decent replies... see ya next time.

The only one rude here is you.


Yeah sure I am, all that flaming I did to pointless responses just like this one, I was really offensive huh... You must have a guilty concious, I guess you were one of the rude pointless responses above somewhere.
Morukk Nuamzzar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-04-04 15:02:29 UTC
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:

Yeah sure I am, all that flaming I did to pointless responses just like this one, I was really offensive huh... You must have a guilty concious, I guess you were one of the rude pointless responses above somewhere.

Look, it's simple - browse forums and think before posting..
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