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What if: ECM

First post
Author
Puhnk Riddell
the DOTwarpunk Initiative
#1 - 2014-04-04 13:13:51 UTC
ECM Jams, a source of both frustration and triumph for many of us, I'm sure. As most of you know, ECM Jams are tools employed by pilots to hamper or even disable a target's ability to lock onto any ship that they are trying to burn down. Lower-end setups break a ships lock and temporarily disable the ability to lock again and Higher-end setups allow to keep an enemy ship jammed up indefinitely. While this is a very effective tactic, I feel it is too effective. It works, to the point of being over-powered.

Truth is, nobody really likes Jams (I'm expecting comments like "that's not true brah" but whatevs), not even the ones doing the jamming, yeah you get a kill, but the whole "victory" just seems...empty. For a good setup, those who fly as a jammer get to contribute very little dps if any at all and although they appear on the mail they more often than not feel kinda left out of the kill club.

So here is my "what if" idea for ECM Jamming.

ECM plays with your ship's computer to make it difficult to lock on to a point in space or even impossible. As I said already, I have issues with the overpowered nature of this tactic but there is also a logic issue; you're still able to select a planet/stargate/moon/station/yourmomshous/etc. and get the insert fav profanity here out. In my humple opinion, I believe ECM should also disallow this. "But Puhnk, if ECM is already overpowered, how the hell is this better? Well, you haven't read my idea yet Blink

So the idea is, what if ECM jams didn't have a game-mechanical effect? What if the effect was a visual one?

The overview is what most pilots use to select their targets and navigation points, sure you can click the icon as it appears in space and use right-click, the radial menu, or what-have-you and that's all well and good for stationary entities like stations or stargates but trying to do this with a moving target like ships is a *****-and-a-half as they are objects in motion. So if we wanted ECM jams to have a visual effect in the game instead of the current, the overview would make a prime candidate as it's target due to high pilot dependency on it.

You still with me? Good, enough of the background, here's the idea:

When jammed, you are still able to lock onto targets, it would still break your current lock, but that just means you have to re-lock your target, however, now your overview is jumping around. Not the whole overview window, but the entities listed there are constantly rearranging themselves in a random order. Lower-strength ECM would have a slower effect, the arrangement of the overview would be slow but just fast enough to make clicking on your desired target difficult. Higher-strength ECM would cycle the overview's arrangement so fast that it's impossible to lock onto the target that you are trying to get, requiring you to either initiate "weapons free" on the first enemy ship you can lock or waste valuable time trying to locate that pesky Falcon. Not only would this eliminate the stupidly op effect of not being to target at all and replace it with a challenge instead, but also, if you're not pointed (because the enemy fleet is obviously comprised of idiots) and you want to run away, well now you're gonna have a hard time finding a warpout vector because even they are jumping around in your overview.

Oh and for you guys capable of using the force and ninja-clicks, not only would the overview items be changing order at varying speeds, what if even the names and details (pilot name, ship type, distance, velocity, angular, etc.) are corrupted, cycling trough unrecognizable letters and other characters.

Ex.

Without ECM-
Name: Bob Bobby
With ECM-
Name: *&% K?^+`

I'm not very good with post closings so I'll just say this is my idea and will leave it up for discussion Lol




Kaidu Kahn
POT Corp
#2 - 2014-04-04 13:20:10 UTC
+1 for effort, but IMHO "NO", working as intended
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-04-04 13:26:32 UTC
I have never heard of this "ECM" contraption that you are mentioning, nor do I want anything to do with it!

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.

Puhnk Riddell
the DOTwarpunk Initiative
#4 - 2014-04-04 13:32:00 UTC
KuroVolt wrote:
I have never heard of this "ECM" contraption that you are mentioning, nor do I want anything to do with it!


In due time, God help you when that happens Blink
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#5 - 2014-04-04 13:34:41 UTC
There are two simple solutions to FALCON

Auto-targetting missiles

Bombs

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Commander Spurty
#6 - 2014-04-04 13:40:18 UTC
The fact it just "disables your guns" is the heart of the matter.

So I cant use a computer to aim, why can I not just shoot "forwards" exactly? Hoes the trigger on a gun being affected?

Also we have these lush properties such as lockable targets. Why aren't they just affected rather than the trigger?

ECM is voodoo whichever side of the fence you're on.

"Working as intended" makes no sense. There exist about 4 skills / modules dedicated to inhibiting ECM. No other directed offensive module requires 4 of anything to counter.

But hey when they added the compensation skills they effectively nailed the coffin and pourer concrete over the top. It's a dead horse Jim.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#7 - 2014-04-04 13:41:33 UTC
This

and

--> Features & Ideas Discussion



There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#8 - 2014-04-04 13:44:42 UTC
Spurty wrote:

So I cant use a computer to aim, why can I not just shoot "forwards" exactly? Hoes the trigger on a gun being affected?

Also we have these lush properties such as lockable targets. Why aren't they just affected rather than the trigger?

ECM is voodoo whichever side of the fence you're on.


Try shooting a jumbo-jet sized target moving at 2000 mps with a pea which shoots at 5 times the speed of sound from a distance of 30 kilometers without a computer

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Solecist Project
#9 - 2014-04-04 13:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
And in a thousand years from now,
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

ECM prevails!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Puhnk Riddell
the DOTwarpunk Initiative
#10 - 2014-04-04 13:55:07 UTC
Spurty wrote:
The fact it just "disables your guns" is the heart of the matter.

So I cant use a computer to aim, why can I not just shoot "forwards" exactly?


If implementations are made to allow this and you actually manage to get a kill this way, I will personally give you 10 biliion ISK
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-04-04 14:11:26 UTC
ECM is not OP. Like many other things in the game, it can be countered. Training sensor compensation for the race your flying, along with fitting ECCM mods will lower your susceptibility to being jammed. Yes, this means your going to have to modify your fitting, but there it is.

So the solution is for you to adapt, not for the entire game to change because you dont want to fit ECCM mods.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#12 - 2014-04-04 14:16:04 UTC
My answer to this idea is: No

I like how you took your time writing it down and making a proper post for it, even if its in the wrong forumsection.

2 things:

- There was a time where we played EVE without overview whatsoever. This idea will jam newer players, but older ones will laugh and blow you up.
- ECM has recently been nerfed by removing some bonuses on ships and introducing skills to increase sensor-strength.

Don't get me wrong; I've been through my share of fights where somebody decided I should be permajammed. Seriously annoying. But I dont think ECM needs to be powered down further and I dont think messing with the overview works.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-04-04 14:19:37 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
There are two simple solutions to FALCON

Auto-targetting missiles

Bombs


Drones also.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-04-04 14:27:35 UTC
Puhnk Riddell wrote:
Spurty wrote:
The fact it just "disables your guns" is the heart of the matter.

So I cant use a computer to aim, why can I not just shoot "forwards" exactly?


If implementations are made to allow this and you actually manage to get a kill this way, I will personally give you 10 biliion ISK


OPTICAL TRACKING COMPUTER I - By predicting the trajectory of targets, it helps to boost the tracking speed and range of turrets. This module can be loaded with scripts to increase its effectiveness in certain areas.

You would think by its name at least it would be able to visually track the computer and feed the tracking information to your guns. Being able to shot at a target without an electronic lock.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#15 - 2014-04-04 14:30:15 UTC
Working as intended, you have access to the exact same tools everyone else has...

Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#16 - 2014-04-04 14:32:45 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Puhnk Riddell wrote:
Spurty wrote:
The fact it just "disables your guns" is the heart of the matter.

So I cant use a computer to aim, why can I not just shoot "forwards" exactly?


If implementations are made to allow this and you actually manage to get a kill this way, I will personally give you 10 biliion ISK


OPTICAL TRACKING COMPUTER I - By predicting the trajectory of targets, it helps to boost the tracking speed and range of turrets. This module can be loaded with scripts to increase its effectiveness in certain areas.

You would think by its name at least it would be able to visually track the computer and feed the tracking information to your guns. Being able to shot at a target without an electronic lock.


How does the Optical part (ie a lowpowered laser or luminousity receptor) feed the information back to the servos that operate the gun without a computer (even a simple one) to translate and process that information into signals that move the servos?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Ezekiel Marr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2014-04-04 14:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ezekiel Marr
Quote:
When jammed, [...] your overview is jumping around.


While we are at it, why not implement mechanic that would allow us hack piloted ships, and after successful hack attempt would grant unrestricted access to wallet of owner of ship being hacked?

Oh. Sorry. I thought it was 'bad ideas' thread.
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#18 - 2014-04-04 15:35:34 UTC
Assuming your idea was implemented:

1. "Oh noes! My faction battleship is pointed and perma jammed by a falcon, the humanity!"

Solo ecm-er jams target, targets overview is visually scrambled, but there is only one thing on it. Target ctrl-clicks on "$StK5hVC" doin "xz24" meters a second and fires. In this situation the effect of scrambling the overview has no real consequence in space.

2. "Oh noes! My caracal is pointed and permajammed by a couple of griffins and a pair of merlins are chewing me slowly, the humanity!"

As the weapons in your proposal are not locked, regardless that I may lock the "wrong" target, in this situation if I can lock any of them at all, one by one they can be killed or pushed off with ze missiles. Once again, the effect of jamming me has a big visual effect, but little consequence.

Another consideration. In fleet fights or as a gang/brawler pvper, you may spend 99% of your PVP time using the overview to lock targets, or assess your situation. A jumbled overview would certainly seem to be an inconvenience. As a soloer, or maybe in a kiting gang, you spend most of your time zoomed way out to see relative positions, directions of travel, lines of possible warp-ins etc and it is entirely possible to lock all of your targets from space never touching the overview once. Evidently for these people your proposed ECM would make little to no difference at all.

I do applaud your intentions though OP, ECM is an awful game mechanic and needs a good mugging, but I don't think this is the way to do it. The thing I like about other e-war is that it reduces your capabilities to fight back, but just maybe with a little skill and luck you can overcome the effect, if not you at least get to go down swinging. Disablement, stun, jamming etc remove the ability to fight back at all, so you either die or leave. Permajam is the worst mechanic for a PVP environment I could conceive of. Negative modifiers can make for some great gameplay, but things that make you unable to fight - even ineffectively - just kill it for me. Personally I like the fighting part of pvp, I assume some others do too.
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#19 - 2014-04-04 15:41:55 UTC
Puhnk Riddell wrote:
Spurty wrote:
The fact it just "disables your guns" is the heart of the matter.

So I cant use a computer to aim, why can I not just shoot "forwards" exactly?


If implementations are made to allow this and you actually manage to get a kill this way, I will personally give you 10 biliion ISK

Step 1) Hit approach
Step 2) Fire Weapon
Step 3) ???
Step 4) Collect 10 bil from someone with a limited imagination

Big smile
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-04-04 15:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Desivo Delta Visseroff
I see no one has suggested ECCM, Remote Sensor Booster, ECM Busts, Target Breakers, ECM drones on hostile and the many other counters that exist....Also D-SCANAttention

Example if solo: Falcon/griffins on D-Scan==> Am I fit? Do I have the sensor strength to resist?

Yes = Give no f**ks;
No = Clean up what you can/ bookmark/align in preparation to warp off.

Is this game really that hard that everything need a nerf because..#toomucheffort?

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]

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