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Expel member at next down time

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#41 - 2014-04-04 04:55:23 UTC
Petrified wrote:

Full APIs are not a silver bullet to the issue. They don't guarantee that you are dealing with a clean alt of a known AWOXer.



"guarantee"? This is the problem with you people. You think if you don't have perfect safety, that it's all for nothing.

You don't get a flipping "guarantee", no ones does. What you get are tools. Use them correctly, or don't.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Cloak n'all
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-04-04 05:02:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Not being necessary (or possible), is a good reason. Do you actually know why you can't kick players in open space?

Oh, and if you're proposing change, the onus is on you to prove the need for it. I don't need the defend the status quo, it exists already. You have to justify changing it. And "Waah, awoxing!" doesn't justify very well, because you could have avoided it easily.

Yes, from what I recall it used to be this way. Like everything else, someone figured out a way to abuse it and it was changed to the current mechanic. And no, it's impossible to avoid a determined AWOX'er - this is another myth continuously perpetuated by the AWOX'ing community. I'm going to go one further with the OP's suggestion:

1. It's a suspect offense to shoot a corps member outside of a fleet.
2. It's a criminal offense (CONCORD) to kill a corps member.
3. Killing a corps member automatically results in corps eviction.

Problem solved. The mechanic can't be abused to kick corps members in space and AWOX'ers can still have their fun and "ransom" the victim's ship. Neutrals can provide logistics but receive a suspect flag (as they should), and if the AWOX'er kills the ship he gets CONCORD'ed and immediately dropped from the corps.


Except for the part where all the things you're railing against are fully intended interactions. And have been held up numerous times.

Oh, and the statement that anyone can get in your corp is the same thing as "you can never prevent a gank". An often repeated lie to try and get more people to think that CCP must do something instead of doing something for themselves. It's your kind's attempt to get more converts against emergent gameplay, by misleading someone into mental helplessness.

The ability to fire on your own corp members exists for a reason.

The inability to kick people in open space exists for a damned good reason.

You propose throwing those things away because some people can't be asked to put "Must submit full API" in the corp advertisement. Your cure is far, far worse than the disease.


To a point I agree with what was said. You shouldn't be able to kick in open space instantly. And inter corp PvP is something that can be used for good things. That being said, the OP only asked that CEOs be able to kick people from out corp as an "at down time" command. The person being kicked would:
1. be in the corp in space until down time, and then logged out with everyone else by CCP.
2. after down time be out of corp, before they even log in.
3. still get the whole day to do what ever damage they are doing to the corp, and you can get a lot done in one day.
4. they could even receive a notice in advance so they have time to be where they need to be.

There is no real way to make this an exploit, it would only give a fair power to the CEO of a corp that they should already have.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#43 - 2014-04-04 05:05:08 UTC
Cloak n'all wrote:


There is no real way to make this an exploit, it would only give a fair power to the CEO of a corp that they should already have.


They already have that power. The OP is asking that he not have to be logged in to do it. He doesn't want to be bothered to do it the way that already exists, so he wants a one button, one shot no thought answer to it.

And that's not how EVE works.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#44 - 2014-04-04 05:16:52 UTC
Cloak n'all wrote:
There is no real way to make this an exploit, it would only give a fair power to the CEO of a corp that they should already have.

Exactly.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#45 - 2014-04-04 05:30:22 UTC
Please don't introduce new game mechanics that rely on downtime.

Expelling a member from a corp should happen at worst on a long timer (i.e.: preferably so you can't time the character leaving corp to be in the middle of combat).

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Cloak n'all
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2014-04-04 05:37:47 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Please don't introduce new game mechanics that rely on downtime.

Expelling a member from a corp should happen at worst on a long timer (i.e.: preferably so you can't time the character leaving corp to be in the middle of combat).


Well the fix for that would be to send them a notice that they will be kicked at that time. A timer would work just as well.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#47 - 2014-04-04 05:43:18 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Please don't introduce new game mechanics that rely on downtime.

Expelling a member from a corp should happen at worst on a long timer (i.e.: preferably so you can't time the character leaving corp to be in the middle of combat).

Agreed, this should be more like the wardec 24hr timer.
Right Click on Member in Corp chat
Expel member? Yes
Error member is in space do you wish to auto Expel member in 24 hours? Yes

Evemail sent to Member: You have been Fired, you have 24hours before your will be Force Expelled from the Corporation, have a nice day!

Done.
Albrecht Patrouette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-04-04 06:40:21 UTC
I would like to point out that what the OP is experiencing is a player exploiting a flaw in the intented design of corporate member management.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#49 - 2014-04-04 07:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Solution: Introduce Warp to Corp Member for CEO and Director.

*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Cloak n'all
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2014-04-04 07:22:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Solution: Introduce Warp to Corp Member for CEO and Director.
*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.


You have a point. "Warp to corp member" would also be a valid fix to the problem, and one any self respecting PvP pilot should be ok with, as they would still be able to avoid it if they are not afk, and watch the Directors movments. Awoxxers do think there PvP Pilots right? Well ether way, this wouldn't kill awoxing at all and would atleast take away the cloak afk viability.
Personaly, I beleave this is more about What a CEO should have control over. If your a CEO, then its YOUR corp. We dont get help from the cops if an employee steals from the safe, and we cant even fire him? The timer Idea is valid aswell. 24 hours with a notice still would give the awoxer lots of time to get that extra orca kill they think they earned.
Albrecht Patrouette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-04-04 08:43:06 UTC
The feature idea that has been presented, in summation, is a way to remove a corporation member by setting a flag that, upon the next downtime/restart cycle, removes/ejects the flagged member. So I'd like to ask the following questions:


1) Would this detract from the game experience?
2) Would this inhibit "realism"?
3) Who would benefit from this?
4) Who would be adversely effected?


The answers would seem to be:

1) No.
2) No.
3) Players.
4) Griefers.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#52 - 2014-04-04 08:46:44 UTC
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
3) Players.

And corporations.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#53 - 2014-04-04 08:47:21 UTC
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
The feature idea that has been presented, in summation, is a way to remove a corporation member by setting a flag that, upon the next downtime/restart cycle, removes/ejects the flagged member. So I'd like to ask the following questions:


1) Would this detract from the game experience?
2) Would this inhibit "realism"?
3) Who would benefit from this?
4) Who would be adversely effected?


The answers would seem to be:

1) No.
2) No.
3) Players.
4) Griefers.


Awoxing is not griefing. Griefing is very specifically defined.

Furthermore, as has been mentioned, the ability to do this already exists. You just don't want to have to be online to do it.

Why should CCP cater to laziness?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Cloak n'all
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2014-04-04 08:56:03 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
The feature idea that has been presented, in summation, is a way to remove a corporation member by setting a flag that, upon the next downtime/restart cycle, removes/ejects the flagged member. So I'd like to ask the following questions:


1) Would this detract from the game experience?
2) Would this inhibit "realism"?
3) Who would benefit from this?
4) Who would be adversely effected?


The answers would seem to be:

1) No.
2) No.
3) Players.
4) Griefers.


Awoxing is not griefing. Griefing is very specifically defined.

Furthermore, as has been mentioned, the ability to do this already exists. You just don't want to have to be online to do it.

Why should CCP cater to laziness?


Your right, griefing does have a Definition and here it is: "1. Player vs player abuse: Singling out the same person and killing them over and over when they are defensless until hey log off." (Urban Dictionary)
That is Awoxxing in a nut shell really.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#55 - 2014-04-04 08:57:38 UTC
Cloak n'all wrote:


Your right, griefing does have a Definition and here it is: "1. Player vs player abuse: Singling out the same person and killing them over and over when they are defensless until hey log off." (Urban Dictionary)
That is Awoxxing in a nut shell really.


A corp is not one person. Duh.

And at least use CCP's definition, we are playing EVE after all. Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#56 - 2014-04-04 09:04:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:


And if they go to a safe spot in a system and remain cloaked until downtime, and they immediately log back on after downtime (which is what it appears the OP is stating) . . . ?


Then they're putting in effort to remain that way. Which, coincidentally enough, counters your lack thereof.

At that point, if you aren't willing to login after downtime yourself, you might consider paying a ransom.



You realize that even i login before the awoxer, i will not be able to track him? Because while i have to slap my probes like my girlfriend, he only have to... well press F1...

Sry same Post, pleas show us how we should counter this. You cant kick Members in Space even they are offline. So its either right out broken by design and unfixed since 10 Years (like i said before) or its an exploid. Period.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#57 - 2014-04-04 09:06:10 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Sry same Post, pleas show us how we should counter this.

1. Pay the ransom, cross fingers.
2. Disband corporation.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cloak n'all
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2014-04-04 09:31:23 UTC
"Here, there's a GM statement on it from about two years ago. It also nicely details that they have no intention of changing how this works.

http://eve-search.com/thread/72092-1/page/all#4"

I have read this post and it real is about GM's saying that the feature is broken, but they can't help you. Not that they support it or even agree with it. Also one GM said that they ARE thinking of changing it. You really should read it. Its a good forum.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#59 - 2014-04-04 10:06:00 UTC
Getting back to the OP… As for solutions, if he's afk cloaked I don't think there's any recourse even if you know what system he's in. I think your only solution is to either wait for him to get bored and leave, wait for him to try and ambush someone or disband and form a new corporation. These are all really sh*tty scenarios, though.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cloak n'all
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-04-04 10:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloak n'all
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Getting back to the OP… As for solutions, if he's afk cloaked I don't think there's any recourse even if you know what system he's in. I think your only solution is to either wait for him to get bored and leave, wait for him to try and ambush someone or disband and form a new corporation. These are all really sh*tty scenarios, though.

CEO's can see the location of all corp members, but all members using the maps feature "my corp members in space" can see where all corp members are and single members out to kill. These are both features that are nice for OTHER reasons.
I would like to see a good reason why a "Delayed and informed expel from a corp at next dock or log off" is a bad Idea and how that would be exploited to grief others.