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Carriers and super carriers after the drone (module) change
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Denuo Secus
#1 - 2014-04-02 03:32:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Denuo Secus
Hi,

I've no experience with carriers. At a first glance Gallente carriers come out on the short end because Amarr and Caldari carriers can fit drone damage mods and tank to get the same or (with expensive modules) even more DPS.

But on the other hand, Gallente carriers could be fit as 'glass cannon' by fitting the same number of drone damage modules. Even more DPS but less tank. Question is: how viable is this in PvP? I've no idea, but I can remember a forum discussion that DPS > tank up to a certain fleet size. Because killed targets don't deal damage back. In bigger fleets tank starts to matter more.

I guess it's the same with gank fitted dreads like the shield Moros. Same story: no tank, lots of damage. So the idea seems to work.

Any idea?
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#2 - 2014-04-02 04:25:43 UTC
In general, a PvP carrier will be in a fleet for its logistics abilities. It will go into 'triage' mode and deal out remote reps to all the other ships in fleet.
Station games *might* be an exception, but big game hunters will eventually hot drop a carrier if it consistently aggresses on stations.

In general, a PvP carrier NOT in a fleet will at some point, be a dead carrier. DPS, tank, unicorns, or demi-gods will make no difference.
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#3 - 2014-04-02 06:24:26 UTC
get trolled more by april 1st dev blog please.
UAB
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-04-02 15:39:00 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
get trolled more by april 1st dev blog please.

Are u usre. I see those changes quite usefull and logical
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#5 - 2014-04-02 16:23:26 UTC
UAB wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:
get trolled more by april 1st dev blog please.

Are u usre. I see those changes quite usefull and logical



I know, these are changes that should have been in the game 10 years ago.... I can't imagine them being an april fools prank.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Ginger Barbarella
#6 - 2014-04-02 18:01:07 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
DPS, tank, unicorns, or demi-gods will make no difference.


I think I found my new siggy... Lol

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2014-04-02 19:44:42 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
Hi,

I've no experience with carriers. At a first glance Gallente carriers come out on the short end because Amarr and Caldari carriers can fit drone damage mods and tank to get the same or (with expensive modules) even more DPS.

But on the other hand, Gallente carriers could be fit as 'glass cannon' by fitting the same number of drone damage modules. Even more DPS but less tank. Question is: how viable is this in PvP? I've no idea, but I can remember a forum discussion that DPS > tank up to a certain fleet size. Because killed targets don't deal damage back. In bigger fleets tank starts to matter more.

I guess it's the same with gank fitted dreads like the shield Moros. Same story: no tank, lots of damage. So the idea seems to work.

Any idea?

PVP in carriers;
Triage: Archon or Chimera.
Sentry Carrier blobs: Archon or Chimera.
POS Repping: Nidhoggur.

Theres not really much use for a thanatos beyond L5 missions.

PVP in supers:
Big fleets: Aeon or Wyvern
Small fleets: Aeon or Wyvern
Solo POCO grinding: Nyx

Hels are pretty but inferior. Aeon is superior to the Nyx in every single way unless youre going for max glass cannon dps, in which case the Nyx is better. Though glass cannon dps in a 25 bill isk ship is not a role you see often. P

The Coreli Corporation is recruiting.
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#8 - 2014-04-03 03:15:48 UTC
Basically with these changes though things like NIddies thannys and hels are able to max out drone dps and fit a shield tank. You may see a rise to the shield cap fleet due to damage projection and rep power.

It might change the meta. Then again it might not since everyone has already started training for archons.
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#9 - 2014-04-03 18:03:41 UTC
Slowcats don't use fighters anyway so it is of minimal impact. Lower scale ops where carriers are use and it will most likely be Triage so again no fighters (or any drone at all).

You could see a shift from Armor Supers to Shield ones now but I doubt it since the momentum that Armor Supers have compared to shield will take a lot to overcome. Most likely Armor Supers will continue to be dominant for a long time.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2014-04-03 18:28:34 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Slowcats don't use fighters anyway so it is of minimal impact. Lower scale ops where carriers are use and it will most likely be Triage so again no fighters (or any drone at all).

You could see a shift from Armor Supers to Shield ones now but I doubt it since the momentum that Armor Supers have compared to shield will take a lot to overcome. Most likely Armor Supers will continue to be dominant for a long time.


Don't forget,

Fozzie mentioned that ALL dronemods will affect fighters and fighter-bombers then. So think about it, one or two omnis will make fighters go warp around and hurt people in smaller boats.

And we get new lowslot modules for them. Twisted

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#11 - 2014-04-03 18:56:20 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Slowcats don't use fighters anyway so it is of minimal impact. Lower scale ops where carriers are use and it will most likely be Triage so again no fighters (or any drone at all).

You could see a shift from Armor Supers to Shield ones now but I doubt it since the momentum that Armor Supers have compared to shield will take a lot to overcome. Most likely Armor Supers will continue to be dominant for a long time.


Don't forget,

Fozzie mentioned that ALL dronemods will affect fighters and fighter-bombers then. So think about it, one or two omnis will make fighters go warp around and hurt people in smaller boats.

And we get new lowslot modules for them. Twisted



IF that's no april fool ^^
Rainbow Dash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-04-04 00:15:10 UTC
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Slowcats don't use fighters anyway so it is of minimal impact. Lower scale ops where carriers are use and it will most likely be Triage so again no fighters (or any drone at all).

You could see a shift from Armor Supers to Shield ones now but I doubt it since the momentum that Armor Supers have compared to shield will take a lot to overcome. Most likely Armor Supers will continue to be dominant for a long time.


Don't forget,

Fozzie mentioned that ALL dronemods will affect fighters and fighter-bombers then. So think about it, one or two omnis will make fighters go warp around and hurt people in smaller boats.

And we get new lowslot modules for them. Twisted



IF that's no april fool ^^


You mean the dev blog that was confirmed not to be an april fools joke by the devs?

I mean, it wasnt even funny, not sure why anyone would think it was an april fools joke.
Muel Hibra
Alternate Intention
OnlyFleets.
#13 - 2014-04-04 01:38:04 UTC
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
IF that's no april fool ^^


"Hello spacefriends! Here are some reasonable and long awaited new features for the next expansion. LOL j/k!"

I'm not sure that would go over so well...
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#14 - 2014-04-04 12:51:45 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Slowcats don't use fighters anyway so it is of minimal impact. Lower scale ops where carriers are use and it will most likely be Triage so again no fighters (or any drone at all).

You could see a shift from Armor Supers to Shield ones now but I doubt it since the momentum that Armor Supers have compared to shield will take a lot to overcome. Most likely Armor Supers will continue to be dominant for a long time.



Slowcats... You mean Das Boots. They use fighters on any structure we can hit with them and hostile caps. Against sub caps we used sentries because you can carry more, instant damage and tracking.

Now that fighters wont be complete **** you will see them used for other things. Like i said metas change all the time.
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#15 - 2014-04-04 12:59:42 UTC
They also cost 20x more than Sentries... I will wait to see weather or not FC's deem it cost efficient to approve of the use of fighters over sentries.
Gary Bell
Therapy.
Brave Collective
#16 - 2014-04-04 15:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gary Bell
1.. With the changes fighters will be able to track anything bigger then a frig based on these changes.. So I believe you will see alot more usage..

2.. Thanny will be the king of pve as it will be able to fit the most dps, as it always has.. this will just make it better..

3.. You are all forgetting the strongest part of the Nyx.. That is its ability to hold fighters and bombers and with the changes to fighters tracking will allow them to actually defend themselves in many situations against smaller targets.. (Run the numbers for a duel med shield extender dictor vs the tracking abilities of the "New" fighters.. Not to mention the (Eventually) cost effective usage of faction drone mods which will be better then t2..

So.. Nyx wont be useless..

Aeon will still tank like a MoFo

Wyvern will be sexy as hell

Hel.. Yeah no

*Now that I look at it again.. According to what mittani posted FB are having there size doubled and Ehp doubled but the Fighters are just getting the Ehp so that means that the 100 percent damage bonus fighters and fighter bombers are getting will make the Nyx 10 fighters into 20 more aless with more Ehp and better tracking.. so like a bonus?


So useless Nyx ehh?
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#17 - 2014-04-04 17:07:54 UTC
Gary Bell wrote:
1.. With the changes fighters will be able to track anything bigger then a frig based on these changes.. So I believe you will see alot more usage..

2.. Thanny will be the king of pve as it will be able to fit the most dps, as it always has.. this will just make it better..

3.. You are all forgetting the strongest part of the Nyx.. That is its ability to hold fighters and bombers and with the changes to fighters tracking will allow them to actually defend themselves in many situations against smaller targets.. (Run the numbers for a duel med shield extender dictor vs the tracking abilities of the "New" fighters.. Not to mention the (Eventually) cost effective usage of faction drone mods which will be better then t2..

So.. Nyx wont be useless..

Aeon will still tank like a MoFo

Wyvern will be sexy as hell

Hel.. Yeah no

*Now that I look at it again.. According to what mittani posted FB are having there size doubled and Ehp doubled but the Fighters are just getting the Ehp so that means that the 100 percent damage bonus fighters and fighter bombers are getting will make the Nyx 10 fighters into 20 more aless with more Ehp and better tracking.. so like a bonus?


So useless Nyx ehh?


The Nyx was never useless in the first place...
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#18 - 2014-04-04 17:33:09 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
They also cost 20x more than Sentries... I will wait to see weather or not FC's deem it cost efficient to approve of the use of fighters over sentries.



Individual drones don't show as kill mails So, unless the carrier dies, the cost will not affect efficiency. If the carrier DOES die, the drones show if they are still in the ship when it dies. Having them deployed/abandoned/dead, actually improves cost efficiency..

Cost efficiency has always been a terrible way to FC imo. Terrible. If some FC wanted me to use a worse fit for his 'cost efficiency', I'd have to dock up and move on.
If you have cap ships on the field, You use whatever it takes to WIN. If fighters do better damage, they better be out there flying.

*I understand that there are suicide fleets and frigate gangs and all that. They go out and try to do major kills with cheap ships for lulz.
And I'm not disputing your point. It is a real thing in EVE. Just making a point/oppinion of my own.