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Dev Blog: Alliance Logos & You - Clarification on submissions

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Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#241 - 2014-02-26 14:17:13 UTC
I just came to a realization. By CCP's own logic and reasoning they must be the new proud owners of Twitch.tv, seeing as the twitch logo and name is now packaged within the client. Lol
Goat Scrotus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#242 - 2014-02-26 19:24:24 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:
I just came to a realization. By CCP's own logic and reasoning they must be the new proud owners of Twitch.tv, seeing as the twitch logo and name is now packaged within the client. Lol


As MailDeadDrop pointed out up-thread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4257075#post4257075) they actually acknowledge the correct ownership of things owned by organizations with their own legal teams.

Now, since Lawyerswarm is probably larger than the legal teams of many software companies (CCP included)...
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#243 - 2014-02-26 23:39:25 UTC
Goat Scrotus wrote:
Tuttomenui II wrote:
I just came to a realization. By CCP's own logic and reasoning they must be the new proud owners of Twitch.tv, seeing as the twitch logo and name is now packaged within the client. Lol


As MailDeadDrop pointed out up-thread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4257075#post4257075) they actually acknowledge the correct ownership of things owned by organizations with their own legal teams.

Now, since Lawyerswarm is probably larger than the legal teams of many software companies (CCP included)...


I was being sarcastic, and twitch isn't on that list. Ugh
RDevz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#244 - 2014-02-28 20:01:42 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:


Sorry this is taking a little longer than expected, but it's a pretty complicated situation.



This must be some strange new meaning of the word "little" of which I was not previously aware.

~
Ortho Loess
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#245 - 2014-03-01 12:50:55 UTC
It's not too hard to put an interpretation on what's going on here.

One of the other things that Bill Winters said in the phone call referred to earlier was that they didn't consider this as an important issue, because this thread was only at 12 pages.

Falcon closed my thread in the very active General Discussion section, and directed discussion here, where it's much quieter.

Falcon has made no substantive contribution to this thread. He has just said wait and see.

CCP's way of dealing with the situation appears to be to try and minimize the number of people who realise what they're doing. Their concept of customer relations appears to be that it's fine to screw over the user base, as long as not too many actually complain too loudly.

According to what we've been told, Burn Jita is the only thing they listen too. It makes a complete mockery of these forums, of Falcon's job title and of any claims they make to actually respect of listen to the player base.

Burn Jita was annoying. Those with reasonable grievances shouldn't have to ruin the game of others, just to get CCP to listen.

CCP Falcon: Stop trying to let this burn out and answer some of the questions raised in this thread.
David Laurentson
Laurentson INC
#246 - 2014-03-01 13:23:37 UTC
Yeah, this looks like "shut up until everyone gives up" PR management.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#247 - 2014-03-02 05:11:25 UTC
We are still waiting on a response in the Margin Trading thread to, that was posted in November...

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Coor Halootarne
Legio Victorem
#248 - 2014-03-04 15:26:46 UTC
*Dev waves hand*
"These are not the treads you are looking for"

On a more serious note its been over a week since this was last responded to, could we get an update on where this is at with "legal"
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2014-03-04 18:35:11 UTC
Coor Halootarne wrote:
On a more serious note its been over a week since this was last responded to, could we get an update on where this is at with "legal"

haha
it's like you're new to ccp.

oh wait, sorry, you actually are. well here's how it works.

ccp announce some change that is widely considered bad. they then "engage" with the community a bit (i.e. they post a couple of feel-good posts how they're totally listening to you, please continue to make constructive posts, they're getting read! honest!), then ignore the thread until they push the change.

they might then later on issue some non-binding "clarification" that clarifies nothing.
Coor Halootarne
Legio Victorem
#250 - 2014-03-04 19:41:46 UTC
From my days in wow I never post on my main.

I know how it works now, It didn't always work that way, there was a time when ccp were much more community centric and listened, commented on and actually did what their player base wanted. Gone are the golden days though now the CSM cant disclose information till after there is no reason to and ccp shoves legal matters down our throats under the guise that it is how the entire industry does things.

You were the chosen one ccp! It was said that you would destroy the competition, not join them. You were to bring balance to the mmo industry, not leave it in darkness.
CCP Falcon
#251 - 2014-03-05 09:44:22 UTC
David Laurentson wrote:
Yeah, this looks like "shut up until everyone gives up" PR management.



Not at all, there's still discussion regarding this going on internally.

I'm not going to come to the forums and give you a response until I've got a solid handle on what's going on, and where we stand.

I'm still in dialogue with our legal team, and with our brand people. Once there's something solid to talk about, I'll update this thread.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#252 - 2014-03-05 15:16:06 UTC
David Laurentson wrote:
Yeah, this looks like "shut up until everyone gives up" PR management.

CCP Falcon wrote:
Not at all, there's still discussion regarding this going on internally.

I'm not going to come to the forums and give you a response until I've got a solid handle on what's going on, and where we stand.

I'm still in dialogue with our legal team, and with our brand people. Once there's something solid to talk about, I'll update this thread.

Your "dialogue" is unacceptably slow. Tell who is dragging this out so we can yell at them to get off their lazy asses, otherwise we have no one to yell at but you (which seems a bit unfair if you're not the cause of the slowness...)

MDD
CCP Falcon
#253 - 2014-03-11 12:35:10 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
David Laurentson wrote:
Yeah, this looks like "shut up until everyone gives up" PR management.

CCP Falcon wrote:
Not at all, there's still discussion regarding this going on internally.

I'm not going to come to the forums and give you a response until I've got a solid handle on what's going on, and where we stand.

I'm still in dialogue with our legal team, and with our brand people. Once there's something solid to talk about, I'll update this thread.

Your "dialogue" is unacceptably slow. Tell who is dragging this out so we can yell at them to get off their lazy asses, otherwise we have no one to yell at but you (which seems a bit unfair if you're not the cause of the slowness...)

MDD


You can feel free to yell at me, I have thick skin and I'm deaf in one ear. Blink

In all seriousness though, I'm aware this is taking a long ass time, it just happens to be something that we have to look at from all angles and extremely carefully Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#254 - 2014-03-18 14:15:11 UTC
Hey, look! Another week goes by and no response from CCP.

MDD
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#255 - 2014-03-20 11:35:13 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Hey, look! Another week goes by and no response from CCP.

MDD

it's like you are surprised about this shocking turn of events
people aren't complaining anymore so they can just go through with it after "careful consideration"
David Laurentson
Laurentson INC
#256 - 2014-03-21 19:22:44 UTC
Sirane Elrek wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Hey, look! Another week goes by and no response from CCP.

MDD

it's like you are surprised about this shocking turn of events
people aren't complaining anymore so they can just go through with it after "careful consideration"


That or the legal team are arguing internally against admitting they were wrong.

I mean, it's clear that they are wrong.
Counter examples have been found to their 'industry standard' claims, including the one example they specifically gave of their imagined 'industry standard'. Their claimed industry standard is not legally possible in Germany, for goodness sake. The 'we must own everything in the client' argument fails when put next to the long list of exceptions, plus things like Twitch which is in the client, not listed in the licence as an exception, yet clearly can't be owned by CCP.

Therefore, all that's left is to argue about what the license should look like (the actual industry standard perpetual licence, perhaps), and then to argue over if someone from legal needs to get their sorry selves to a web browser and apologise for the mistake and for wasting everyone's time.

Also I guess if someone in legal was intentionally lying about something, then they're probably more concerned about firing them than anything else, but that does seem less likely than just screwing up.
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#257 - 2014-03-26 06:33:32 UTC
Falcon I know you're busy firefighting that Erotic 1 shitstorm in GD, but take 5 minutes and harass CCP Legal again. It's been another week...

MDD
Sakaane Eionell
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#258 - 2014-03-30 07:45:33 UTC
I'd like to see an update on this too.

Suresha

We are the few, spoken of by many | Solitary Pilot
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#259 - 2014-04-02 17:58:27 UTC
And another week...

MDD
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2014-04-03 11:30:50 UTC
I'm all for you taking your time and being careful to avoid major issues.

However, we're now at the point where this is ******* ridiculous. It's been seven weeks since you posted the devblog originally. It's been more than three weeks since the last contact with CCP in this thread.
Shipping user-generated content in a game is a solved problem, technically and legally.

Hanlon's razor mandates I should assume incompetence in cases like these. If your legal team is too incompetent to redraft, or at least discuss (remember how you told us you'd get answers from them "as soon as possible" in february?), the license in nearly two months, they need to pull their heads out of their collective arses.