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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#1961 - 2014-04-02 23:32:46 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
There are no winners in this except for ripard teg who has removed a potential political opponent from eve

Ripard wasn't going to run for the CSM next cycle anyway.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#1962 - 2014-04-03 01:25:25 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Speaking of general media, I wonder what the larger gaming community as a whole will think of CCP apparently asserting (through it's actions) that their TOS and EULA extends outside of the game and into the personal lives and private property of it's players.



And not giving a **** about the racism and irl threats the victim made?



It doesnt matter whether somethign neither of us can prove or disprove did or didnt happen.

His Alliance mates did.


If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?

Good for the goose = good for Gander

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1963 - 2014-04-03 01:41:28 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?

Good for the goose = good for Gander


Please link to a DEV post stating it was because of the TS that he was banned. Else stop spouting lies.

Mr Epeen Cool
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#1964 - 2014-04-03 01:43:54 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.


Which SOKHAR disagreed with which is why he NEVER REPORTED HIM - which IMO is the worst part of it

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#1965 - 2014-04-03 01:44:45 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
In short...

1. Erotica 1 was 'mean' out of game to another EvE player Sohkar.

2. Sohkar did not file criminal charges of harassment et al against Erotica 1, so real world harassment has not been proven in law. Erotica 1 hasn't been convicted of anything. More telling is that Sohkar has since made it clear he does not feel Erotica 1 harrassed him.

3. Additionally, it should be noted Dominatrixes in my area charge $140 for 1/2 of willing S&M or BDSM abuse, while Erotica 1 charged Sohkar nothing. Submissives in these scenarios typically use 'safe words' to end abusive play at their choosing. Sohkar had a teamspeak disconnect button. He didn't press it.

4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.

5. Carebears and pansies joined Ripard Teg's witchhunt,

6. CCP did more 'research', six months after the event, and banned Erotica 1 from EvE online.

Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need...

By all appearances Erotica 1 was not banned because of a violation of TOS or EULA that CCP can honestly defend (or they would perhaps quote it), he appears to have been banned based on moral hand wringing by pansies and the fact people in power dont like him or his actions.

Welcome to the 'sandbox'. Be the villian...until someones feelings get hurt, then you are screwed.

p.s.
Given Ripard Teg may have actually made real-world accusations about Erotica 1's 'torture', 'harassment' and 'abuse' of Sohkar, I would find it entertaining indeed if Erotica 1 now successfully sued Ripard for publishing slanderous libel against him. For surely if Erotica 1's actions outside of the game were real acts of 'torture', 'harassment' etc, then equally Ripards comments are actionable for libel and slander if said acts weren't provable true in court?

F


and btw bump the hell out of this post

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#1966 - 2014-04-03 01:57:00 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
In short...

1. Erotica 1 was 'mean' out of game to another EvE player Sohkar.

2. Sohkar did not file criminal charges of harassment et al against Erotica 1, so real world harassment has not been proven in law. Erotica 1 hasn't been convicted of anything. More telling is that Sohkar has since made it clear he does not feel Erotica 1 harrassed him.

3. Additionally, it should be noted Dominatrixes in my area charge $140 for 1/2 of willing S&M or BDSM abuse, while Erotica 1 charged Sohkar nothing. Submissives in these scenarios typically use 'safe words' to end abusive play at their choosing. Sohkar had a teamspeak disconnect button. He didn't press it.

4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.

5. Carebears and pansies joined Ripard Teg's witchhunt,

6. CCP did more 'research', six months after the event, and banned Erotica 1 from EvE online.

Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need...

By all appearances Erotica 1 was not banned because of a violation of TOS or EULA that CCP can honestly defend (or they would perhaps quote it), he was banned based on moral hand wringing by pansies and the fact people in power dont like him or his actions.

Welcome to the 'sandbox'. Be the villian...until someones feelings get hurt, then you are screwed.

p.s.
Given Ripard Teg actually made real-world accusations about Erotica 1's real-world 'torture', 'harassment' and 'abuse' of Sohkar, I would find it entertaining indeed if Erotica 1 now successfully sued Ripard for publishing slanderous libel against him. For surely if Erotica 1's actions outside of the game were real acts of 'torture', 'harassment' etc, then equally Ripards comments are actionable for libel and slander if said acts weren't provable true in court?

F


That's a lot of words based on the mistaken assumption that the ban was because of something that happened out of game.

Mr Epeen Cool

Remind me again what the title of this thread is, who posted it, and the timing of said post?



Title:

"Im CSM I can troll and duplicate post and not get moderated"

Malcanis

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#1967 - 2014-04-03 02:05:35 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?

Good for the goose = good for Gander


Please link to a DEV post stating it was because of the TS that he was banned. Else stop spouting lies.

Mr Epeen Cool


Please link to the DEV post where they deny it was because of TS he was banned Else stop spouting lies

Antisocial Malkavian Cool

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1968 - 2014-04-03 02:52:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ssabat Thraxx
Mr Epeen wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?

Good for the goose = good for Gander


Please link to a DEV post stating it was because of the TS that he was banned. Else stop spouting lies.

Mr Epeen Cool


Cmon, Mr Epeen, I think a little deductive logic goes a long way here. The title of this thread is "An Announcment Regarding Real Life Harassment. "Real Life" implies outside of the game. The disapproved-of confrontation between E1 and Sokhar took place in Real Life. Since the only Real Life interactions there have ever been between Sokhar and E1 were on TS, I don't think there's any leap in logic to say that the "Real Life Harassment" being referred to is, dare I say it, obviously because of the TS.

It's very disingenuous of you to say that people are "spouting lies" in reference to this easy to understand fact.

edit:grammar.

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1969 - 2014-04-03 03:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?

Good for the goose = good for Gander


Please link to a DEV post stating it was because of the TS that he was banned. Else stop spouting lies.

Mr Epeen Cool


Cmon, Mr Epeen, I think a little deductive logic goes a long way here. The title of this thread is "An Announcment Regarding Real Life Harassment. "Real Life" implies outside of the game. The disapproved-of confrontation between E1 and Sokhar took place in Real Life. Since the only Real Life interactions there have ever been between Sokhar and E1 were on TS, I don't think there's any leap in logic to say that the "Real Life Harassment" being referred to is, dare I say it, obviously because of the TS.

It's very disingenuous of you to say that people are "spouting lies" in reference to this easy to understand fact.

edit:grammar.


You raise a good point. I'll give you that. That is in fact the title of the thread.

My inclination is that, as they do most of the time, Devs don't do a very good job of communicating the issue in their statements. There's nothing concrete that I can point to in this thread to back up that feeling. It's just based on 7+ years spent in the game and the many ambiguous statements I've read through over the years.

Nonetheless, without a definitive answer we can only speculate on the specific reason for the ban. To my mind, Erotica1 opening them up to legal liability by using their game as a tool for his antics makes the most sense to me. That's my considered opinion as I have stated before. Also as I repeatedly stated, CCP will never tell us the reason. Your thoughts and opinions on this carry as much weight as mine.

But when you state continually opinion as a fact and willfully misquote and misrepresent what you quote, it crosses the line into lies and defamation. (Malk). I feel no remorse in calling him out for the idiot that he plays at being in these threads.

But for you I will just agree to disagree since there is no way, short of bribing a Dev, that we'll ever know which of us is right.

Mr Epeen Cool
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#1970 - 2014-04-03 06:36:20 UTC
Wanna read something funny in the its in the EULA QQ idea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement#Shrink-wrap_and_click-wrap_licenses

Quote:
The enforceability of an EULA depends on several factors, one of them being the court in which the case is heard. Some courts that have addressed the validity of the shrinkwrap license agreements have found some EULAs to be invalid, characterizing them as contracts of adhesion, unconscionable, and/or unacceptable pursuant to the U.C.C.—see, for instance, Step-Saver Data Systems, Inc. v. Wyse Technology,[4] Vault Corp. v. Quaid Software Ltd..[5] Other courts have determined that the shrinkwrap license agreement is valid and enforceable: see ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg,[6] Microsoft v. Harmony Computers,[7] Novell v. Network Trade Center,[8] and Ariz. Cartridge Remanufacturers Ass'n v. Lexmark Int'l, Inc.[9] may have some bearing as well. No court has ruled on the validity of EULAs generally; decisions are limited to particular provisions and terms.


lol EULAs

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Asia Leigh
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#1971 - 2014-04-03 07:09:00 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
You folks need to get of the Erotica1 ****. Whats done is done. The issue is what precedent CCP has established.

Which is cave to mob mentality.


And to give a free pass to racial slurs and threats of real-life violence and murder so long as it's because the other guy pissed you off.


I'll let Malcanis answer that one:

Malcanis wrote:
You want CCP to ban erotica1 for deliberately tormenting a player until he loses control, and then also ban the player for losing control? Is that right?

Really, you should be relieved that Sokhar hasn't been banned; it demonstrates that the GMs are capable of understanding context, and they will empathise with the circumstances, and they can tell the difference between something said in the heat of the moment and something said with actual intent. So you can relax and not worry about being banned for a trivial or flippant statement on private comms, of whatever other ridiculous scenarios are being bandied about.



And Malcanis is an idiot for the following reason,

All death threats are provoked by a negative emotional response by definition, otherwise there would by no reason to make the threat. Essentially what his quote says everyone who is arrested and serves a jail sentence for "Terroristic Threats" should be released, because they were in a rage based on someone elses behavior towards them. Let me know how well that argument would hold up in a court of law.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#1972 - 2014-04-03 07:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
Welcome to the New Eve, where you can write an inflammatory blog post, claim an individual you don't like is literally a torturer (or rapist, as Ripard has done before) and get them banned for stupid, trifling things like making someone sing a song.

Welcome to the themepark Ripard has been dreaming of since he first mistakenly started playing

Edit: I also don't quite agree with Malcanis' reasoning for being happy sohkar isn't banned, as he's arguing that someone issuing real life death threats and spewing racist remarks is, in certain contexts, allowable. That's another dangerous, stupid precedent to set.

At the same time, I am happy sohkar isn't banned because I don't think he should be banned for an emotional outburst made entirely outside of EVE and all other CCPs services... but thats where the inconsistency comes in, since Ero was banned
Salvos Rhoska
#1973 - 2014-04-03 07:35:19 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:

And Malcanis is an idiot for the following reason,


You dun goofed, Ms.Mad-Alt

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Asia Leigh
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#1974 - 2014-04-03 07:39:58 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Asia Leigh wrote:

And Malcanis is an idiot for the following reason,


You dun goofed, Ms.Mad-Alt


goofed about telling the truth? Also this is my main so you know where you can stick it.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1975 - 2014-04-03 08:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Welcome to the New Eve, where you can write an inflammatory blog post, claim an individual you don't like is literally a torturer (or rapist, as Ripard has done before) and get them banned for stupid, trifling things like making someone sing a song.

Welcome to the themepark Ripard has been dreaming of since he first mistakenly started playing

Edit: I also don't quite agree with Malcanis' reasoning for being happy sohkar isn't banned, as he's arguing that someone issuing real life death threats and spewing racist remarks is, in certain contexts, allowable. That's another dangerous, stupid precedent to set.

At the same time, I am happy sohkar isn't banned because I don't think he should be banned for an emotional outburst made entirely outside of EVE and all other CCPs services... but thats where the inconsistency comes in, since Ero was banned


This is a pretty good summation about one point I have had an issue with since this whole bullshittery started.

Death threats, especially long and descriptive ones, are ok NEVER. No freaking context, no "empathy" with the douchebag spouting them, and no freaking extenuating circumstances. Especially not when those circumstances consist of losing your pixels.

CCP seems to have far too much tolerance for real life threats when they are addressed at the "bad guy" players, from what I have seen.

If they are comfortable taking third party sources as evidence for this, then how do any of the miners listed here still have active accounts? Clearly CCP doesn't need a petition to act, either, as they've established with the E1 situation.

So what's the deal? How are any of these freaking people still playing the game?
Scumbag Miners wrote:

"I would like you to commit suicide, is that clear enough?"

"I believe people like you should be strung up on a pole out side of town and left for the animals"

"If I find out where you live, I'll come by and put a bullet in your fat head"

"you will be dead by then as your social life will bring you to major depression and you will hang yourself"

"when you decide to blow your brains out please make sure to stream it live because I'll enjoy knowing that another loser has offed himself"

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Salvos Rhoska
#1976 - 2014-04-03 09:00:36 UTC
Some people (and their numerous alts) here should be careful what they say, so they don't contradict what they said in the threadnaught :)

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1977 - 2014-04-03 09:14:49 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.

As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.

- The EVE Universe Community Team


And that turns the whole discussion about the recent events into a mockery. Do you know why ?

Because people consider you HYPOCRITES by now. And one doesn't have serious discussion with hypocrites - because there's no point to it for obvious reasons.

You claim A and do B - and what is more saddening - apply it selectively on your whim and personal preferences.

- Someone is in bed with CCP (csm, friend of one, friend of gm, whatever else) ? Have fun.
- No connections ? Sucks to be you.

Any discussions related directly or indirectly to E1 on the forum - unless the CCP cleans up their backyard (and that means a) unbanning E1 /or/ b) banning both Sokhar (RL threats) as well as majority of other scammers that ever did anything involving out of game communication channels) - is a farce.


And a bit on a side note, recollecting all the information about the "incident". I don't get it tbh. Sokhar - hands down 100% willingly everything he owns on the account to a well known scammer - which makes Sokhar a total imbecile with masochistic tendentions - and then again 100% willingly proceeds to play eve/voip minigames (ones almost as old as EvE itself) - then makes a big fuss about it inc. real life threats and then .... E1 gets banned ?

What the **** ?
Real life harrasment ******* where on E1's side ?
Real life threats on Sokhar's side - check. Why is he still in game ?

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
#1978 - 2014-04-03 09:20:53 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

Sohkar not filing (and proving) charges of harassment in court is EXACTLY the point. Erotica 1 appears to have been banned for real life harassment (see thread title), yet no real life harassment has been proven in court. Many accused Erotica 1 of real life harassment as their main rallying cry to ban him remember?

Sophistry, pettifogging and general hair-splitting. You might do well as a lawyer.

CCP perceived a threat to their reputation and took action against the person bringing their name and business into disrepute.

If someone threatened your livelihood wouldn't you do all in your power to protect yourself?
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1979 - 2014-04-03 09:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
Jaxon Grylls wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

Sohkar not filing (and proving) charges of harassment in court is EXACTLY the point. Erotica 1 appears to have been banned for real life harassment (see thread title), yet no real life harassment has been proven in court. Many accused Erotica 1 of real life harassment as their main rallying cry to ban him remember?

Sophistry, pettifogging and general hair-splitting. You might do well as a lawyer.

CCP perceived a threat to their reputation and took action against the person bringing their name and business into disrepute.

If someone threatened your livelihood wouldn't you do all in your power to protect yourself?


You must be kidding? A Game where about every news item, youtube recording, blog post, etc... EVER consists of people scamming, stealing, mocking, crying, swearing and all the jazz suddenly would get bad press/reputation because someone asked someone else to sing songs? Djees louise...
CCP even employs the most die-hard griefers of them to promote their venue? Are you purposely being obtuse?

If any bad press would have been noticed, it would have been about DEATH THREATS AND RACISM.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1980 - 2014-04-03 09:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: SKINE DMZ
Soltys wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.

As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.

- The EVE Universe Community Team


And that turns the whole discussion about the recent events into a mockery. Do you know why ?

Because people consider you HYPOCRITES by now. And one doesn't have serious discussion with hypocrites - because there's no point to it for obvious reasons.

You claim A and do B - and what is more saddening - apply it selectively on your whim and personal preferences.

- Someone is in bed with CCP (csm, friend of one, friend of gm, whatever else) ? Have fun.
- No connections ? Sucks to be you.

Any discussions related directly or indirectly to E1 on the forum - unless the CCP cleans up their backyard (and that means a) unbanning E1 /or/ b) banning both Sokhar (RL threats) as well as majority of other scammers that ever did anything involving out of game communication channels) - is a farce.


And a bit on a side note, recollecting all the information about the "incident". I don't get it tbh. Sokhar - hands down 100% willingly everything he owns on the account to a well known scammer - which makes Sokhar a total imbecile with masochistic tendentions - and then again 100% willingly proceeds to play eve/voip minigames (ones almost as old as EvE itself) - then makes a big fuss about it inc. real life threats and then .... E1 gets banned ?

What the **** ?
Real life harrasment ******* where on E1's side ?
Real life threats on Sokhar's side - check. Why is he still in game ?

Well said to be honest, also just saw this: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-01-was-ccp-right-to-ban-this-eve-online-player

""If Bonus Rounds were a problem, CCP should have let me know," he concluded. "Instead, they accepted biased opinions as fact and made a decision based on poor perceptions of what the media might think." very true

also salvos is indeed a very bad troll - he wasn't trying to wound you, just stating the obvious !BURN!

I disagree