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FONT

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Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#441 - 2011-11-30 21:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
CCP Sad new font is headache induceing to alot of people!!! please fix it! it's not the design (I think) it's simply that its too wide, and bad spacing, fix that and you will reduce the whine to "I just think it looks like something from a Tarzan adventure game"

I logged in for 30 mins today, chatted a little, warped through a few systems, had to log off because my eyes started bleeding

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#442 - 2011-11-30 21:06:13 UTC
Leah Solo wrote:
Might I ask what other issues, besides having some similar looking numbers, symbols and letters and being slightly too small, did the old font have?
It didn't scale properly if I understood the devs correctly, and thus couldn't be used with the new font rendering.

…but the issues you mentioned are enough on their own to make them want to replace it for years now.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#443 - 2011-11-30 21:13:34 UTC
Just throwing in my opinion since there is so much "font hate" going on.

I'm using two different 1920 X 1200 monitors, graphics max(not sure if that matters for the font?), UI scaled to 90%.

For me, the font is fine. Is it better than the old font? Yes. It is easier to read even when scaled down. Everyone in game I've asked is either indifferent or prefers the new font. Not sure why so many forum goers dislike it.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
#444 - 2011-11-30 21:17:56 UTC
the font looks fine. there's a million other things i'd like addressed before re-changing the font.
Senorita putatita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#445 - 2011-11-30 21:21:57 UTC
Day 2, font still sucks. head still aches, please fix. Cry
Leah Solo
Lag No Use
#446 - 2011-11-30 21:24:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Leah Solo wrote:
Might I ask what other issues, besides having some similar looking numbers, symbols and letters and being slightly too small, did the old font have?
It didn't scale properly if I understood the devs correctly, and thus couldn't be used with the new font rendering.



Okay..thx for clearing that up. Too bad they didn't make the new font look as close as possible to the old one. Sad
CCP t0rfifrans
C C P
C C P Alliance
#447 - 2011-11-30 21:31:31 UTC
Hey all

Obviously there are divided opinions on the new font, it being in front of everyone the whole time and a big part of the overall EVE experience. When designing the new font, there were two major paths which we had to choose between. Make it legible, and improve accessibility or make it sci-fi and futuristic, risking usability for asthetics. We chose to go down the usability path.

Now from what we can see, there are very heated opinions on the topic. We did a little quasi-scientific analysis of the forums chatter. There were 1220 posts on the topic at the time of counting, 960 unique characters posting ( with the top 50 posting 31% of the posts ). We counted 6% objecting the new font, 49% somewhat neutral and 45% writing in a positive manner about it.

Looking at that date, we determine than while many people miss the old font and want the new one printed in books in order to be burned Farenheit 451 style, the majority of those writing on the topic like it and are enjoying the improved usability.

Also, the UI scaling is a very separate feature than the font, it was just lucky that we managed to get them both into Crucible. The font and the scaling had been developed by very different people at separate ends of the studio on very different schedules. Being able to launch both of then in Crucible made us pretty happy in terms of providing increased usability, which is something EVE sorely needs improved and we are committed to work on ad infinitum.

Finally, don't pick on Punkturis for implementing the new font or the UI scaling! She did a great job on both and I think EVE is a better product as a result of it!
Amber Green Thorn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2011-11-30 21:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Amber Green Thorn
Quote:
We counted 6% objecting the new font,


No way

So basically you're saying you're going to do nothing about the scaling?? That's the real problem if you'd read the posts. Your game looks like a dogs dinner atm.

OK - scratch that -so you'll be working on it -reread the post - Font and Scaling being separate departments. Should be the same department really though.

Congrats on the rest of it -well done,
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#449 - 2011-11-30 21:38:22 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Hey all

Obviously there are divided opinions on the new font, it being in front of everyone the whole time and a big part of the overall EVE experience. When designing the new font, there were two major paths which we had to choose between. Make it legible, and improve accessibility or make it sci-fi and futuristic, risking usability for asthetics. We chose to go down the usability path.

Now from what we can see, there are very heated opinions on the topic. We did a little quasi-scientific analysis of the forums chatter. There were 1220 posts on the topic at the time of counting, 960 unique characters posting ( with the top 50 posting 31% of the posts ). We counted 6% objecting the new font, 49% somewhat neutral and 45% writing in a positive manner about it.

Looking at that date, we determine than while many people miss the old font and want the new one printed in books in order to be burned Farenheit 451 style, the majority of those writing on the topic like it and are enjoying the improved usability.

Also, the UI scaling is a very separate feature than the font, it was just lucky that we managed to get them both into Crucible. The font and the scaling had been developed by very different people at separate ends of the studio on very different schedules. Being able to launch both of then in Crucible made us pretty happy in terms of providing increased usability, which is something EVE sorely needs improved and we are committed to work on ad infinitum.

Finally, don't pick on Punkturis for implementing the new font or the UI scaling! She did a great job on both and I think EVE is a better product as a result of it!


Thanks for posting. Did this include all posts with the word font included in the text? 90% with 11pt type and small text in the overview should become the new standard. What percent of the player base would have to change to that option for this to happen?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2011-11-30 21:38:33 UTC
I personally suspect this is some kind of a person-specific problem, possibly related to eyesight. Some people see the exact same things very differently, reacting in odd ways to visuals/text that look perfectly fine to others. In this case it may be related to kerning - to some people (as I understand it) the new EVE font appears to be spaced inconsistently. I can't see it and I have no problems, but I know people who are very frustrated with it (and some who have, over time, grown accustomed to the new norm)

The only real "fix" at this point would be to introduce fully switchable font typeface with at least a handful of different fonts that players could freely choose (with at least the ability to specify UI font and chat box font separately. Possibly also separate font for the overview).

I am aware that this is probably a non-trivial job, but I suspect that the small (and vocal) minority will never be happy until something like this is done.

(and no, reverting everyone back to the old crappy font... don't even think about it. Most of us are either neutral or happy with the font)
Veriasse Valence
Axitek Consortium
#451 - 2011-11-30 21:44:36 UTC
at 1680x1050 I find that I have less space than before, however switching to 90% makes the fonts in many cases far too small to be legible and far far far far far worse than the old font ever was. So now Im stuck with the choice of less space or harder to read.

Amongst the many other issues I and others have pointed out, this right now is my biggest gripe. Its been an actual negative factor on my gameplay and the headache inducing font is certainly going to cause me to log in far less to do corp management type things. I will instead handle them via EVE Gate and other out of game comms. Given a choice between headaches and not logging in...
CCP t0rfifrans
C C P
C C P Alliance
#452 - 2011-11-30 21:47:05 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:

The only real "fix" at this point would be to introduce fully switchable font typeface with at least a handful of different fonts that players could freely choose (with at least the ability to specify UI font and chat box font separately. Possibly also separate font for the overview).

In the short term, that's not that easy or cheap. The font has to be licensed and then adjusted to work within the client. That's expensive and time consuming.

Also, just be clear, we are totally aware that some people don't like it, and that's their opinion and we respect that. When it comes to something like a typeface, its there are no moral absolutes or right or wrong. What we're saying is that overall, we and the majority of people providing feedback on it feel that it improves usability. During testing and first implementation, we had pretty much exactly the same discussion and split opinions within the larger dev team, btw.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#453 - 2011-11-30 21:47:34 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
I personally suspect this is some kind of a person-specific problem, possibly related to eyesight. Some people see the exact same things very differently, reacting in odd ways to visuals/text that look perfectly fine to others. In this case it may be related to kerning - to some people (as I understand it) the new EVE font appears to be spaced inconsistently. I can't see it and I have no problems, but I know people who are very frustrated with it (and some who have, over time, grown accustomed to the new norm)

The only real "fix" at this point would be to introduce fully switchable font typeface with at least a handful of different fonts that players could freely choose (with at least the ability to specify UI font and chat box font separately. Possibly also separate font for the overview).

I am aware that this is probably a non-trivial job, but I suspect that the small (and vocal) minority will never be happy until something like this is done.

(and no, reverting everyone back to the old crappy font... don't even think about it. Most of us are either neutral or happy with the font)


Exactly, although some combinations of monitor type, size, and resolution may also account for some of the discomfort. For those having difficulty I would suggest experimenting with the various settings in EVE and their basic game resolution until they find a combination they can live with.

The percentages listed jibe pretty closely with the estimate I had made myself after reading the various threads.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Rion Deteisan
Forged Prophets
#454 - 2011-11-30 21:49:50 UTC
I have this absolutely crazy idea that would of saved so much time and money......

Keep the old font - Fix the ONLY the problem fonts in the old font.


Imagine how much money that would of saved. Perhaps the devs could of used font energy to do more important things for the expansion.

.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#455 - 2011-11-30 21:52:08 UTC
Rion Deteisan wrote:
I have this absolutely crazy idea that would of saved so much time and money......

Keep the old font - Fix the ONLY the problem fonts in the old font.


Imagine how much money that would of saved. Perhaps the devs could of used font energy to do more important things for the expansion.



Probably not possible, and I believe the old font would not work correctly with the new scaling options (although I could be mistaken on that point).

Font issues are one of the most brought up issues needing a fix over the last several years. Devoting some resources to it is far from unimportant.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#456 - 2011-11-30 21:52:15 UTC
Ohanka wrote:
Shkolnica wrote:
New and old ui comparison.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/96881


as we can see the new UI is inferior thanks to this.


aye

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Selinate
#457 - 2011-11-30 21:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Selinate
Confirming also that this UI scaling thing makes some descriptions/numbers/etc. unreadable in certain parts of the UI. I have to increase it back up to 100% just so I can read the market price history numbers....

EDIT: Also, rollover information is completely garbled and unreadable. Things in places they shouldn't be, etc.... This really needs fixing
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#458 - 2011-11-30 21:52:42 UTC
Ohanka wrote:
Shkolnica wrote:
I can not play eve more than 15 minutes with this new ui.
Because my eyes hurts.
I'm now in skill switching mode till ui improvements.
If there will be no improvements I will have to stop playing eve.


yes the new font makes the game unplayable


i agree, or nearly so.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#459 - 2011-11-30 21:53:15 UTC
William Loire wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
you know things are good when the only whines are about the FONT


I have to agree with this, but the font is pretty bad.

Supporters: "I can finally read it!"
Detractors: "It's ugly, amateurish, not scifi, wraps poorly, giving headaches and clashes with the EVE art style."

Again why the old font couldn't have been optimized for clarity* rather then scrapping it entirely for a rush job is beyond me.

(* Seriously? People had troubles reading it? Playing since 2005 no problem. If your upset because you need your glasses to read it: thats exactly what your glasses are for. We have poor vision, deal with it.)


sing it loud & proud. amen.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#460 - 2011-11-30 21:58:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Font and UI scaling may be separate. But if it wernt for 90% scaling the forum would be ablaze with many more people complaining about the huge font and annexing of monitor real-estate to solve a problem that the majority of people didnt have with the old font.

If you can allow a smaller font so that we dont have to distort other UI assets like icons with scaling you make have solved the problem.
As it stands the icons and the text in the window tabs are the worst artefacts of the down scaling and font size across the UI needs to be normalized and a smaller font option introduced and/or icons need to be redrawn for the 90% UI rather than crudely shrunken or not scale at all.