Player Features and Ideas Discussion

but we all know the people who're losing the HG sets are the ones who just bought them, and now think they're badass only to learn real fast that is not the case...

You're comparing extremes. In doing so you forget that everything in eve scales exponentially.

Look at it this way. You can pvp with +2s which are cheap as dirt, marginal risk and still get some benefit. You could risk a bit more and pvp with +3s, though these are still rather cheap. A bit more risk but not much. +4s bring up the risk quite a bit for a mere +1 but...again this is how things in eve scale. And obviously pvping with +5s would basically mean you're ither brain dead stupid or you have a fat wallet. Or you simply don't think you'll lose your pod (high sec warfare).

There is risk/reward here. You risk more isk loss for more gain. That gain however has diminishing returns, like everything in eve. This is how risk/reward works in eve.

PS: If you are relatively intelligent, you could also plan a long skill plan that only uses 2 attributes, thus enabling you to only need 2 implants for an extended period of time.

wait, why are you losing 3 months of training?

assuming you're min/maxed for per/will and have +5s in those attributes...

60(32) + 30(26) = 2700 SP/hour

drop to an implant-less clone, 60(27) + 30(21) = 2250 SP/hour.

At the end of 24 hours, you're only down by 10 800 SP. Over the course of a war (7 days), that's 75 600 SP.

a x3 skill takes 26250 SP to reach level 3 (give or take) ... so the real difference of +5 implants to no implants is ~2 rank 3 skills to level 3, and one partially through the L3 training time. Annoying, but not game breaking by any means...

Let's say you have 1week-long war a month in a particular year. You're out a grand total of 907 200 SP over the course of that year. Over the course of that year, you have trained for 40 weeks at 2700 SP/hour and 12 weeks at 2250 SP/hour. You're 22 680 000 SP ahead of where you were at the beginning of this year. 52 weeks of 2700 SP per hour would be 23 587 200 SP.

For PvPing nearly 1/4 of the year (13 wks would be 25%) you're only "missing" 4% of your SP.

That is, you're only 2 weeks behind ... not three months.

While these have differing primary/secondary attributes needed, let's assume you got your 22.6m SP for the year. Across the various categories, that means:

You could have finished off Corporation Management (7.4m), or Drones (22.5m), or electronics (18.1m), or engineering (15.6m), or leadership (15.8m), or Navigation (9.7m), or Planet Management (4.3m), or Social (5.3m), or Trade (8.9m). In a number of cases, you could have finished more than one category.

Looking at Gunnery (45.5m), you'll have nearly half of the skills trained (assuming you're going to L5 on everything) which means you're topped out on at least one (if not two) weapons platforms.

Looking at Industry (24.3m), you're a paltry 1.6 million short of having the entire category completed. Which means you're probably looking at training one or two skills to L5 (or finishing off a L5 skill that's in progress, depending).

Looking at Mechanic (35m), you're over 60% of the way through the category. You're pretty much maxxed out on armour compensation and repair bonuses... probably lacking the capital stuff more than anything.

Looking at Spaceship Command (117m), you'll be a little more than 1/5 of the way through it, so probably maxxed out on one race's subcaps.

edits galore (also, holy **** I can't think straight)

Just went in to change into my primary clone with the +5 implants.

Well, without implants teh training time I had remaining was 5 days 55 minutes.

When I climbed into the clone with the +5's my training que went to 3 days 21 hrs 25 minutes.

That's 1 day 3 hrs and 30 minutes shorter.

I just set up a skill plan that takes 364 days 2hrs 17 minutes...(close to a year)

With plus 5 implants it would be 282 days 10 hrs 18 minutes.

a grand total difference of 81 days 15 hrs 18 minutes.

That's a huge difference for players in Eve.

Basically, that's saying that staying in high sec and using +5 implants until you have the skills for a super carrier will be more beneficial than going to low/null sec and pvp'ing while you try to train for a super.

It's going to take you much longer, or you're gonna have to spend over 600 mil on +5 implants every time you get podded.


Again, this is not to make life easier for anyone or to allow everyone to have max training times without having to buy +5 implants.

I agree with the suggestion because it balances the game for everyone reguardless of what they do, how much risk they undertake, or how new or old they are.

Everyone will train at the same speed reguardless(unless you're remapped obviously).

Those with the most isk should have the benefit of using 5% skill implants in pvp because they've made the money to do so.

However, everyone in Eve is against SP for plexes, neural remaps for plexes, and neural remaps for isk.

Yet no one seems to realize that Attribute implants are exactly that.

It's allowing those with the most isk or less risks to train an extra 80 days or more in SP over what poorer, or less risk averse players can.

I feel that this is fine when it comes to skill implants because they may benefit you in combat effectiveness, but it's not enough to break the game and other players can at least get into that ship in the same amount of time.

However, 2 noobs with cybernetics 5, one noob with +5's and one without cause they can't afford it or they are pvp'ing and don't want to risk 600 mil isk each pod..

Well, the noob being fed via buying plexes, friends giving crap out, or whatever other means is going to have a much greater advantage in the amount of time it takes to get into new ships and become proficient in those ships.

So it's the exact same thing as purchasing SP, or a plex for a remap.....Hell, it's worse than a plex for a remap cause you can at least set a one year que and get the full benefit of a remap...

Risk reward shouldn't apply to SP....

This toon has a HG set of slaves, talismans, crystals and a +5 attribute set. All of them are loaded up with 5% hardwirings too. This toon does not enter high sec except to gank hulks. I've paid a steep price to gain advantages in both combat and training speed. I risk them every time I undock and though I don't get podded often, it does happen. I don't fly what I can't afford to lose (or do without) and you shouldn't either. That is the nature of this game and that's precisely why I play it. Unlike every other MMO I know of, this is the only one where you can actually lose stuff.

What she means in a tl;dr is "it's not that big a deal".

Most of that extra SP goes into level V skills, which (with some exceptions like Drone Interfacing, Battlecruisers, Destroyers, etc) don't supplement your efficiency that much.

I have never used any learning implants (I get podded too often), and can fly ships just as competently as other players my age. I have often beaten characters much older than mine in PvP, as well.

I'm not saying using implants is bad per se, but that people who don't use characters because they're training are a bit foolish.

Why not use jump clones and low quality imps for your pvp adventures?



OR
You can lose about 36 Million because you just use two standard imps, you lose with that way instead of 3 months only about 18 days per year compared to improved grade imps (Improved imps have about 20% advantage against those cheap standard imps). Which means you start only losing training after you would got those days wasted for cybernetics V, which will take some time already. And your 3 months are already an extragation, which means those 18 days will become even less.

There is no reason at all to spend isk on a full implant set if you do only need 2 attributes at a time. You are free now to send me two billion isk for all those money I have saved you. No need to thank me besides sending isk.

Seems to me that this is not a question of risk vs reward but just common sense.