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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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So much about the combat system from Eve...

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Arun Tadaruwa
Hotbirds
#141 - 2014-04-01 15:18:03 UTC
Well look at that, making EVE-reality analogies.

I'm sory, but EVE isn't a realistic game.

Besides, gameplay comes before realism.
The change you're proposing hinders gameplay, since it removes the ability to strike up the power scale.

If this game was totally realistic, it'd be tedious.

Alt posting because yes.
Ella Echerie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2014-04-01 15:42:52 UTC
The mechanics are fine. If you want to you can fit your battleship with anit-frigate weaponry and systems and it will be very very strong against frigates.

Basically what seth said ^.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#143 - 2014-04-01 15:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Tacomaco wrote:

If you look at who's against it, you'll see it's only players with frigates don't want this.


ur the only one who wants this, everyone else flies ships from frigates to BS.#

edit-
Quote:
This huge ISK imbalance must be addressed for small scale PvP


isk is not a balancing factor in combat. its merely a deterrent.

just because a ship costs five times the isk does not mean it should take five ships to kill. with eve players setting the price of ships, this perception of cost = power is outright wrong.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#144 - 2014-04-01 17:38:20 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Tacomaco wrote:

If you look at who's against it, you'll see it's only players with frigates don't want this.


ur the only one who wants this, everyone else flies ships from frigates to BS.#

edit-
Quote:
This huge ISK imbalance must be addressed for small scale PvP


isk is not a balancing factor in combat. its merely a deterrent.

just because a ship costs five times the isk does not mean it should take five ships to kill. with eve players setting the price of ships, this perception of cost = power is outright wrong.


Yep, with "more = more" -logic, Etana should be able to clear off dozens of Thanatoses solo.
oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#145 - 2014-04-01 18:08:18 UTC
Tacomaco wrote:
Samwise Everquest wrote:

You also realize that bigger ships have more EPH than smaller ships?


And the fanboyz pounce.....

You realize that you completely ignore the fact that it's not about hit points. It's like saying that a tank has more hit points and if you shoot at it with with a machine gun it just takes longer to destroy it than it takes to destroy a car. When in fact it can't be destroyed...

But I kinda understand why the fanboyz would be scared about this change. You would have to fight bigger ships with ships of their own size. Probably if you have some skill at making money you would afford some ship bigger than a frigate.

Just keep the game like this, pvp for the poor man....



If it's made out of the same material then yes, a tank has more Hitpionts, if it's not the same material then it will still have more hitpionts, reason it will take more Hits to take down.

what you are trying to say dose make sense but that is already in the game, by giving the bigger ships more HP.

If you have a small brick wall one layer thick is going so many hits to take down, you a wall 3 times the size and 3 layers thick it will take even more shot to take down, but the bullets are going to do the same damage, just going to take more damage to take it down?!?!?! the bullets aren't "oh **** the wall is huge, let do less damage". so to take down the wall you bring a bigger gun, but that means the small wall will be taking down pretty fast so lets keep the small wall moving so the biger gun can't hit it... that is how the game is balanced at the moment.

and it's not hard to hit something smaller then you, you could always web them, paint them, keep range so on....

you looking at it wrong, you looking at as boring pain numbers not percentages, if small ships do 50% the damage to a bigger ships it's just the same as the bigger ship has 200% hitpionts and you doing 100% damage.

can go on but can't be asked.

sorry for poor grammar and spelling.
Tacomaco
No Taxes just fun
#146 - 2014-04-02 09:06:00 UTC
oohthey ioh wrote:

what you are trying to say dose make sense but that is already in the game, by giving the bigger ships more HP.


Of course larger ships have more hit points, it takes more materials to build and are larger.

The issue here is right weapon for the right target. The only reason some players don't like it is simply because it's not in the game.

Here is another example, rockets. Larger rockets hit small ships but do less damage because of the target signature, target speed, explosion speed and radius. So it's ok for big rockets to do less damage to small ships because it's balanced like that. There weren't designed to take out small ships.

The question is why should a light missile or rockets to full damage to large ships when they were designed to do their full damage to small fast ships?

Well, CCP keep the game broken like it's now. When new games like Star Citizen come out see how many of the PvP-ers still play Eve just for the PvP. It's easy now when Eve doesn't have completion. I wouldn't be surprised CCP will make quite a lot of changes to PvP once the completion start draining the player base.

Oh, well, there will still be miners in Eve...
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#147 - 2014-04-02 11:27:59 UTC
Tacomaco wrote:


The question is why should a light missile or rockets to full damage to large ships when they were designed to do their full damage to small fast ships?


Because they do so little damage even at max capacity.

Do you still think that a frigate wins a battleship, btw?
Tacomaco
No Taxes just fun
#148 - 2014-04-02 12:16:54 UTC
Juan Thang wrote:
Similarly if you did hit the frig, which the pilot would have to be pretty stupid to stop moving completely or move on dead away or towards you... then they would die in 1 or 2 hits instead of the 150 hits it will take them to grind through your hp.


Kill BS with frigate? This guy thinks so. He probably exploits that all the time.

How about this question, can a destroyer equipped with small weapons destroy a Battleship? Does it have the dps to burn the battleship tank? I think we all know the answer...

In 8 pages nobody has provided one single argument why the small weapons shouldn't be rebalanced. Sry guys, but "we like it(cause we can exploit it)" or "it's in the game for years" or "battleship has lots of hp" aren't arguments. 6 year old kids use this kind of arguments when they want something. When you don't like what's written here, could you at least write your comment so it doesn't look like it's taken from the warcraft forum?

Again: why large and medium ships with large/medium weapons should lose their effectiveness against small ships when the small ships don't lose anything?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2014-04-02 12:34:16 UTC
Tacomaco wrote:
Juan Thang wrote:
Similarly if you did hit the frig, which the pilot would have to be pretty stupid to stop moving completely or move on dead away or towards you... then they would die in 1 or 2 hits instead of the 150 hits it will take them to grind through your hp.


Kill BS with frigate? This guy thinks so. He probably exploits that all the time.

How about this question, can a destroyer equipped with small weapons destroy a Battleship? Does it have the dps to burn the battleship tank? I think we all know the answer...

In 8 pages nobody has provided one single argument why the small weapons shouldn't be rebalanced. Sry guys, but "we like it(cause we can exploit it)" or "it's in the game for years" or "battleship has lots of hp" aren't arguments. 6 year old kids use this kind of arguments when they want something. When you don't like what's written here, could you at least write your comment so it doesn't look like it's taken from the warcraft forum?

Again: why large and medium ships with large/medium weapons should lose their effectiveness against small ships when the small ships don't lose anything?


The weapons in Eve are firing hypersonic shot, plasma bolts, anti-matter shells etc etc...these don't just hit armour, they vaporize chunks of it. Your armour reps try to mitigate ths by replacing material with paste, patching the scrap back in place, buffing fields around the hull etc etc. It is entirely conceivable that e.g. anti-matter will work perfectly from a small gun against a large target as non of it is wasted in an explosion radius to get the target. you practically can't miss. The BS shell on the other hand would need to be proximity fused to hit a frigate otherwise the chances of hitting would be negligible. Proximity fuse means blast radius means less damage than a direct hit against say another BS.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#150 - 2014-04-02 12:36:49 UTC
Tacomaco wrote:
Juan Thang wrote:
Similarly if you did hit the frig, which the pilot would have to be pretty stupid to stop moving completely or move on dead away or towards you... then they would die in 1 or 2 hits instead of the 150 hits it will take them to grind through your hp.


Kill BS with frigate? This guy thinks so. He probably exploits that all the time.


No, what do you think? Everyone else in this thread knows the answer, and it's no, a PVP fit BS will obliterate a frigate. but do you think this is not the case?

Quote:
In 8 pages nobody has provided one single argument why the small weapons shouldn't be rebalanced. Sry guys, but "we like it(cause we can exploit it)" or "it's in the game for years" or "battleship has lots of hp" aren't arguments. 6 year old kids use this kind of arguments when they want something. When you don't like what's written here, could you at least write your comment so it doesn't look like it's taken from the warcraft forum?

Again: why large and medium ships with large/medium weapons should lose their effectiveness against small ships when the small ships don't lose anything?


In 8 pages nobody has provided one single argument why small weapons wouldn't be balanced as they are. Sry mate, but "I don't have a clue but my mission boat was violenced and therefore my cluelesness must be an exploit" isn't an argument. 3 year old kid uses that kind of argument when he wants something.

Again: Why should small ships lose their weapon effectiness against larger targets? Do you understand the tracking and explosion mechanics behind the current situation?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2014-04-02 12:56:48 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:


Again: Why should small ships lose their weapon effectiness against larger targets? Do you understand the tracking and explosion mechanics behind the current situation?


To be fair I think he doesn't like the idea of say the equivalent of a 20MM cannon round damaging the 16" armour plate of a rl BS...but this is a game and for balance reasons (plus the real physics reasons I blathered about above) small guns will always have to be able to apply damage to targets. I agree with you that the balance is fine as is, it's just his perception that a frig shouldn't damage a BS that is wrong.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#152 - 2014-04-02 15:19:00 UTC
Quote:
The question is why should a light missile or rockets to full damage to large ships when they were designed to do their full damage to small fast ships?


because its easy to make a good hit against a battleship with a fast moving rocket. and large missiles do less damage against frigs because its not easy to hit a fighter with a cruiser missiles or a speed boat with a torpedo.

Tacomaco wrote:


Well, CCP keep the game broken like it's now. When new games like Star Citizen come out see how many of the PvP-ers still play Eve just for the PvP. It's easy now when Eve doesn't have completion. I wouldn't be surprised CCP will make quite a lot of changes to PvP once the completion start draining the player base.

Oh, well, there will still be miners in Eve...


have u read what PvP is going to be like in star citizen? i read somewhere that the creator itself is saying that its less of a PvP game than PvE game...enjoyLol

im sure the combat style is great for twitch play, but i also bet large ships piloted by dumb ppl still fall prey to smaller ships piloted by experienced players and that the practically 'arranged' PvP will be about as immersive as CoD. if u want small one dimensional match-made matches with twitch play, play SC. if u want larger fights multi-leveled PvP with less arbitrary constraints, EVE will still be the better choice.

Quote:
In 8 pages nobody has provided one single argument why the small weapons shouldn't be rebalanced


because they are fine. u havent provided a single reason why they should be rebalanced except that u think a bigger more expensive ship should auto-win against smaller ships, and 8 pages of ppl are telling u why this is wrong.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs