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Voting for 14 candidates is just too dam many - And here is why

First post
Author
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-03-30 21:53:29 UTC
Right. So with the current system of voting, I have to cast a vote for 14 candidates. If I don't vote for 14 candidates, then the candidates I do want and voted for do not get counted.

Right now there is only 2 CSM9 candidates I feel represent my interests. The rest are opposed to my interests or have no opinion or experience on the matters I want addressing.

So For me. The current "STV" means that I am not voting for what I want, I am voting for what "I DON'T WANT". I have no choice on the matter,. I can vote for the guys I want on the CSM, But to do that, I also have to vote for guys that will actively work against my chosen candidates and by extension my issues that I voted for. So what's the point of me voting? No matter how you swing it, Unless you can find 14 candidates that all follow your views. You have to vote in candidates that are going to work against you.

Now I understand that CCP want a broad spectrum of voices on it's CSM. But asking the voters/players to cast votes for candidates that they don't want is just dam right wrong.


This needs to be changed.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-03-30 22:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Oddsodz wrote:
Right. So with the current system of voting, I have to cast a vote for 14 candidates. If I don't vote for 14 candidates, then the candidates I do want and voted for do not get counted.


Uh... okay. Your complaint seems to be based on a gross misunderstanding of how the system works, so let's clarify that first. You do not have to put 14 candidates on the ballot, you only have to put up to 14. If there are only one or two that you like, that's fine - you can do that, and your ballot is just as legitimate as someone's with a full roster.

However, here's a bit of extra voting strategy to consider. The purpose of the STV system (at a very high concept level) is to ensure that votes are not wasted, and this is achieved by splitting extra votes that a candidate receives above and beyond what's needed to get elected amongst those listed below them on any ballot in which they appear. For example, say in a round of voting I appear as the first choice on a thousand ballots but the requirement to get a seat is only 500 votes. In that case, Alice, Bob and Charlie, who appear 250, 250 and 500 times (respectively) as a second preference on those ballots that had me first would each get some extra votes - a quarter per ballot for Alice and Bob (so 250 each), and a half for Charlie (or 500 each).

What this means is that if you have only a few candidates listed on your ballot, some or all of your vote may wind up wasting itself. That's especially true if one or both of your supported candidates gets eliminated early on. Not so different from the older voting system (pick one guy, top 14 vote counts win) in that regard, but STV does let you do something more about it - read on.

It's rare for any one person to accomplish something singlehandedly on the CSM. More often they have to present the issue to their peers in an appeal for support, to explain what the problem is & how and why it should be fixed. This is true and necessary even if their peers did not previously have an opinion on or experience with the matter - remember "no experience or opinion with" is by no means automatically equivalent to "opposed to".

So with that in mind, some best-practices advice: Look at the candidates in the running beyond the two you support. Decide if they seem the open minded type who are willing to look beyond their own past experience, look into what they're saying, and hell, just ask them about your concerns - you may find yourself surprised. Once you've done that, list at least two or three of them on your ballot as well. Your primary two are the folks you're counting on to represent your issues to CCP, while the rest are the ones you count on to lend support to your primary reps... or if all else fails and your primary reps aren't elected, they're the ones you count on to be open minded enough to consider issues from the community, even if they've got no experience or opinion.

And regardless of how you choose to vote or who you choose to vote for, remember that none of us can read your mind. You might have a unique outlook on a particular matter you want addressed, and unless you drop in and tell your representative(s) about it, it's entirely possible that they'll never know about it no matter how well you think they represent your interests.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-03-31 22:10:45 UTC
I Thank you for taking to the time to reply, And a nice long one at that.

Now on to the beef.

mynnna wrote:
Your complaint seems to be based on a gross misunderstanding of how the system works, so let's clarify that first. You do not have to put 14 candidates on the ballot, you only have to put up to 14. If there are only one or two that you like, that's fine - you can do that, and your ballot is just as legitimate as someone's with a full roster.


If what you state is correct, (and I do believe you are correct even though you are a GOON - Lol ) That I have been a right silly tit. But I blame CCP Dolan for that. I am sure I read something by him last year about how "YOUR MUST VOTE for 14 or your votes don't count at all". And the worst part is I can't even prove that. I have failed to find the post about it. So I failed at even blaming CCP Dolan. I am bad at EVE.

Again, Thanks for the reply and clarification.

Oddsodz
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2014-03-31 22:30:22 UTC
One game, one sandbox, one true leader

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Liese Shardani
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-04-03 01:38:39 UTC
Great timing, mynnna. I was looking for an example along those lines earlier today because I'd heard something similar about *having* to vote for all 14. I was pretty sure that was wrong but didn't have a good example of how it DOES work.

Picking 14 can take a while, but I do learn more about candidates I might not otherwise have heard about.