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Unanchoring Dead POS's

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#41 - 2014-03-31 14:44:51 UTC
[quote=Ramona McCandless]So should the same rationale not be applied to the tower's modules too?

And what is an inactive tower doing that its preventing another being set up?

Seriously dude, they make no logical sense and the POS overhaul wont be a moment too soon coming./quote]I'm not really sure what you mean by this one. Towers are one per moon, online or offline, by design. The idea is to make it so people have to attack each other for them. If you happen to find an empty one and put a tower down, good for you. If that then sits there unused for a while, it should just go back to being empty just so that people who are too risk averse to wardec an inactive corp can jump into it's place.

I agree the POS overhaul is very much needed, but I don't suppose the mechanics of where a POS can go and how to remove it will change much.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#42 - 2014-03-31 14:45:54 UTC
It will prove interesting if CCP has the guts to change the game mechanics by June so that a dead POS can be removed without a wardec.

If they don't:

1. June release introduces changes to compression array, where ore compression is now a big important deal in high sec.
2. goons themselves or their pets RvB to immediately wardec all small corps in any vicinity to Jita, Amarr, whatever major trade hub they feel like.
3. All POS's that can be easily destroyed are.
4. goons / RvB put up a ton of small pos's in their place, but don't fire them up, effectively dead-zoning the moon.
5. goons / RvB have with this move now effectively choked off the ability to compress ore for tons of people.
6. goons do fire up a few POS's of their own, in select areas, to support their own ore compression abilities.
7. goons now control the compressed ore market in high sec, as they are one of the few people able to actually buy ore and compress it.


They might even start now.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#43 - 2014-03-31 14:49:20 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Sounds good to me!
Of course it does, because you are risk averse and effort averse.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Attacking it being changed to a suspect flagging doesn't affect that one bit.
Are you having an imaginary discussion with fictional people that have said anything to this effect?
Uhhh no, your suggestion is to make an offline POS attackable without concord intervention right? So at what point would you say it's abandoned? Or do you mean attack every POS without concord intervention, online or offline?

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ooooh! Look who deliberately ignored the wardec timer vs sec status hit and imminent CONCORDoken?!

The thing you haven't realised yet, Lucas, about forum discussion, and one I would warn you about, is that people aren't as stupid as you think they are. Dishonesty by means of deliberate omission, is noted and reflects poorly on you.

Funny to hear carebear arguments from you though. Maybe you should just haul your ass back out of null to protect your high-sec assets you keep unused and unfueled for weeks on end?

Changing attacking POS to suspect flag sounds great to me.
lol, once again you're doing that thing you like to do. You know where you totally misrepresent what people say then get all high and mighty, acting like your some genius. Next you'll tell us all you are leaving, then keep coming back right? Or is this going to be the one where you just keep circling round the same bullshit argument.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Salvos Rhoska
#44 - 2014-03-31 14:49:33 UTC
Dinsdale aint tinhat on this one.

Its what I would do.

High-sec compression facilities are gonna be BIG for purposes of getting high-sec ore/ice back to null.

I hope/wish null gets more active at mining at its own belts, but really, why not still do it in high-sec, providing you can compress it for shipment downstream.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#45 - 2014-03-31 14:52:32 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It will prove interesting if CCP has the guts to change the game mechanics by June so that a dead POS can be removed without a wardec.

If they don't:

1. June release introduces changes to compression array, where ore compression is now a big important deal in high sec.
2. goons themselves or their pets RvB to immediately wardec all small corps in any vicinity to Jita, Amarr, whatever major trade hub they feel like.
3. All POS's that can be easily destroyed are.
4. goons / RvB put up a ton of small pos's in their place, but don't fire them up, effectively dead-zoning the moon.
5. goons / RvB have with this move now effectively choked off the ability to compress ore for tons of people.
6. goons do fire up a few POS's of their own, in select areas, to support their own ore compression abilities.
7. goons now control the compressed ore market in high sec, as they are one of the few people able to actually buy ore and compress it.


They might even start now.
So surely if this happened, one of the many corps with goons and RvB wardecced could just show up and blitz the small POS in a matter of minutes... I'm sure Gevlon would go on some huge rampage to cleanse highsec.

Larger groups will control the compressed or market regardless. I mean for starters, alts exist, and secondly the rest of you are too busy crying about how you want everything to be made super easy for you because you heart highsec to actually put the graft in.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#46 - 2014-03-31 14:57:29 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It will prove interesting if CCP has the guts to change the game mechanics by June so that a dead POS can be removed without a wardec.

If they don't:

1. June release introduces changes to compression array, where ore compression is now a big important deal in high sec.
2. goons themselves or their pets RvB to immediately wardec all small corps in any vicinity to Jita, Amarr, whatever major trade hub they feel like.
3. All POS's that can be easily destroyed are.
4. goons / RvB put up a ton of small pos's in their place, but don't fire them up, effectively dead-zoning the moon.
5. goons / RvB have with this move now effectively choked off the ability to compress ore for tons of people.
6. goons do fire up a few POS's of their own, in select areas, to support their own ore compression abilities.
7. goons now control the compressed ore market in high sec, as they are one of the few people able to actually buy ore and compress it.


They might even start now.


Good

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#47 - 2014-03-31 15:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Lucas Kell wrote:
I'm not really sure what you mean by this one. Towers are one per moon, online or offline, by design. The idea is to make it so people have to attack each other for them.


yes, but if it belongs to an empty inactive corp and its been out of fuel for three years, thats not about to drive much conflict.

And by design of arbitrarily reducing the amount of POSes in the system, even though there is no real reason theore couldnt be a POS at the LaGrange and Nadir points of the moon without any chance of them going anywhere near each other.

Im just picking at the lack of lore and the poor construction.

It dont mean nuthin

Just grizzling and devil's advocating.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#48 - 2014-03-31 15:02:17 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

High-sec compression facilities are gonna be BIG for purposes of getting high-sec ore/ice back to null.



Why wouldnt you just produce it in null in the first place?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#49 - 2014-03-31 15:10:38 UTC
I knew there were really only 5 players posting in GD!
WASPY69
Xerum.
#50 - 2014-03-31 15:44:42 UTC
There should be a mechanic where a POS that has been offline for a month enters some kinda "abandoned" state (Game mechanic wise of course, but also quite literally).
And then we should get a new module similar to the hacking module where you play a silly mini game, or something similar to get access to the POS mainframe or something like that. And should you be successful you will get temporary access and make it enter reinforced mode. You would still have to wait out the timer, but instead of wasting ammo destroying it, you will get the permission to unanchor once the timer runs out.
But should you fail twice, like current hacking mechanics, the POS will enter a "lockdown" mode or something and you would need to blap it per usual.

This signature intentionally left blank
Grayland Aubaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-03-31 16:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Grayland Aubaris
Just to stay on topic for a second - how about letting this fall into the new deployable structures that were getting now with the introduction of a 'mobile hacking platform' or something like that.

What I took the OP to mean is not that its a easy way to clear space - but as a way to profit by stealing someone elses POS - then either using it or selling it for lovely iskies.

So I suggest this:

New deployable structure: 'Mobile Hacking platform'
Cost: circa 25m
Single use, cannot be scooped and used again.
medium amount of shield / armor

How it works:

- Needs to be deployed within 10km of a OFFLINED POS tower.
- Once in place it will spend 24 hours hacking into the mainframe of the tower.
- During this time the corp owning the tower will be notified - you could even broadcast something in local every so often.
- After 24 hours the tower becomes 'Vulnerable' and will RANDOMLY become unanchored at some point in time during the next 4 hours - when it is unanchoured ANYONE can scoop it.
- The mobile hacking platform self destructs.

The point being that you don't know exactly when it will become available to steal, and there could be pew pew between people trying to snag it. Sounds fun to me!

And it gives CCP a way to have a new deployable structure, a way for people to steal the structure for profit - (if you want to just make the space available you can war dec them instead), and also gives the defending corp chance to respond. Also it provides the unknown quantity of never knowing WHEN exactly the tower will be steal-able.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2014-03-31 16:05:03 UTC
Grayland Aubaris wrote:
How it works:

- Needs to be deployed within 10km of a OFFLINED POS tower.
- Once in place it will spend 24 hours hacking into the mainframe of the tower.
- During this time the corp owning the tower will be notified - you could even broadcast something in local every so often.
- After 24 hours the tower becomes 'Vulnerable' and will RANDOMLY become unanchored at some point in time during the next 4 hours - when it is unanchoured ANYONE can scoop it.
- The mobile hacking platform self destructs.

Presumably, this would work like all other personal deployables and be an S-flag (at most) to attack and blow up?
Grayland Aubaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-03-31 16:07:05 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Grayland Aubaris wrote:
How it works:

- Needs to be deployed within 10km of a OFFLINED POS tower.
- Once in place it will spend 24 hours hacking into the mainframe of the tower.
- During this time the corp owning the tower will be notified - you could even broadcast something in local every so often.
- After 24 hours the tower becomes 'Vulnerable' and will RANDOMLY become unanchored at some point in time during the next 4 hours - when it is unanchoured ANYONE can scoop it.
- The mobile hacking platform self destructs.

Presumably, this would work like all other personal deployables and be an S-flag (at most) to attack and blow up?


Yes - I think it would be best to keep consistency in that regard.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2014-03-31 16:13:40 UTC
Grayland Aubaris wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grayland Aubaris wrote:
How it works:

- Needs to be deployed within 10km of a OFFLINED POS tower.
- Once in place it will spend 24 hours hacking into the mainframe of the tower.
- During this time the corp owning the tower will be notified - you could even broadcast something in local every so often.
- After 24 hours the tower becomes 'Vulnerable' and will RANDOMLY become unanchored at some point in time during the next 4 hours - when it is unanchoured ANYONE can scoop it.
- The mobile hacking platform self destructs.

Presumably, this would work like all other personal deployables and be an S-flag (at most) to attack and blow up?

Yes - I think it would be best to keep consistency in that regard.

The only thing I can think of off-hand that might be needed is a hack-immunity timer if an attempt is interrupted. Otherwise, it'll probably be too easy to just do nuisance deployments or to end up as timer ping-pong. On the other hand, that would in turn let people proactively use them as immunisers to keep their own towers safe, but at 25M per period, it seems fair enough.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#55 - 2014-03-31 16:21:59 UTC
WASPY69 wrote:
There should be a mechanic where a POS that has been offline for a month enters some kinda "abandoned" state (Game mechanic wise of course, but also quite literally).
And then we should get a new module similar to the hacking module where you play a silly mini game, or something similar to get access to the POS mainframe or something like that. And should you be successful you will get temporary access and make it enter reinforced mode. You would still have to wait out the timer, but instead of wasting ammo destroying it, you will get the permission to unanchor once the timer runs out.
But should you fail twice, like current hacking mechanics, the POS will enter a "lockdown" mode or something and you would need to blap it per usual.



I would keep it simple.
POS is out of fuel, shields are down, POS is fair game.
No war dec, no suspect flags.
Anyone can blow it up and scoop anything that falls out.

If you run around high sec now, you see an awful lot of POS's that are simply a tower, no mods at all.
They are acting as placeholders for any number of corps.

That mechanic should be removed.
And why the goons will exploit that mechanic if it is not removed with the June release.
Grayland Aubaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-03-31 16:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Grayland Aubaris
Tippia wrote:
Grayland Aubaris wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grayland Aubaris wrote:
How it works:

- Needs to be deployed within 10km of a OFFLINED POS tower.
- Once in place it will spend 24 hours hacking into the mainframe of the tower.
- During this time the corp owning the tower will be notified - you could even broadcast something in local every so often.
- After 24 hours the tower becomes 'Vulnerable' and will RANDOMLY become unanchored at some point in time during the next 4 hours - when it is unanchoured ANYONE can scoop it.
- The mobile hacking platform self destructs.

Presumably, this would work like all other personal deployables and be an S-flag (at most) to attack and blow up?

Yes - I think it would be best to keep consistency in that regard.

The only thing I can think of off-hand that might be needed is a hack-immunity timer if an attempt is interrupted. Otherwise, it'll probably be too easy to just do nuisance deployments or to end up as timer ping-pong. On the other hand, that would in turn let people proactively use them as immunisers to keep their own towers safe, but at 25M per period, it seems fair enough.


Good point - the corp also has the option of fueling and onlining the tower to keep it safe. Perhaps - once a tower becomes vulnerable if you destroy the hacking platform then noone can make another attempt for around 4 hours? I suspect that the person doing the hacking will simply move onto another easier target. Also, too many attempts and it become unprofitable.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#57 - 2014-03-31 16:26:29 UTC
Any change to the existing mechanics that allow circumvention of the presently required war declaration, should also remove the presently required corp standings grind to anchor the tower.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2014-03-31 16:27:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Grayland Aubaris wrote:
Good point - the corp also has the option of fueling and onlining the tower to keep it safe. Perhaps - once a tower becomes vulnerable if you destroy the hacking platform then noone can make another attempt for around 4 hours? I suspect that the person doing the hacking will simply move onto another easier target. Also, too many attempts and it become unprofitable.

One would think so, but if there's anything EVE has demonstrated over the years, it is that “unprofitable” is not good enough a reason to keep people from being annoying. Lol


e: And as to Doc Fury's point, that's a good reason why the timers would be pretty important. In particular, making them too short would just make them a dec-skipping mechanic. If the intent is to allow the removal of abandoned POSes, specifically, then there's little downside to have it be a longer timer — there's no rush to get there before the (non-existant) defenders show up, after all.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#59 - 2014-03-31 18:48:50 UTC
Removed some off topic posts. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thanks.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-03-31 18:57:10 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It will prove interesting if CCP has the guts to change the game mechanics by June so that a dead POS can be removed without a wardec.

If they don't:

1. June release introduces changes to compression array, where ore compression is now a big important deal in high sec.
2. goons themselves or their pets RvB to immediately wardec all small corps in any vicinity to Jita, Amarr, whatever major trade hub they feel like.
3. All POS's that can be easily destroyed are.
4. goons / RvB put up a ton of small pos's in their place, but don't fire them up, effectively dead-zoning the moon.
5. goons / RvB have with this move now effectively choked off the ability to compress ore for tons of people.
6. goons do fire up a few POS's of their own, in select areas, to support their own ore compression abilities.
7. goons now control the compressed ore market in high sec, as they are one of the few people able to actually buy ore and compress it.


They might even start now.

You're an idiot. We want as many people compressing as possible. We need those compressed minerals to fuel the fires of nullsec industry.

In fact, if you were willing to put your money where your mouth is, doing exactly what you described with a cabal of highsec industrialists would do us nullsec folks serious harm.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.