These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

RamDisk and Eve
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Rollaz
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#21 - 2014-03-31 03:20:42 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
My brain tells me that playing EVE from the SSD outperforms your solution by far.




Is your idea doable? Yes.

Is there any upside, compared to using an SSD? No.



Necro.


I already have a PCIe SSD drive for my OS, I'm looking to add RamDrive with 32gb of ram to fully load the game on Ram instead of on the drive... Ram IS faster so I'm just wondering what kind of increase and where I'd see improvements. (under what circumstances)

HAVE FUN - MAKE ISK - NO DRAMA No Api's   -   No Wars   -   No Awoxing   -   No Kidding! Hogs is OPEN for recruiting!  Join our in-game channel "Airhogs"
Pew Terror
All of it
#22 - 2014-03-31 03:39:11 UTC
I played around with ramdisks for gaming, but in the end its more hassle than use.
The performance increase is measurable, but i couldnt see a competetive edge with EvE (It didnt affect grid load times at all whereas platter HD vs SSD was very noticeable).

And you will need more then 16gig RAM, thats kinda low end for that.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-03-31 04:10:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It all depends on what part of the process you want to speed up.

If it's the loading of static and cached data, then you can use junctions to point the EVE cache directories to… pretty much anywhere you want. The main problem here is to figure out a way to save and restore that data to a permanent location to avoid data loss. In this case, you won't need much space.

If it's in the loading of game assets, then you can pretty much just copy the EVE install over to the ramdisk and run it from there. It's reasonably self-contained and makes no real assumptions about where it's installed. In this case, you'll need a big chunk of memory to cover the whole install volume. I'm not entirely sure how much it is on Windows, though.

The 22GB mentioned in the installer sound an awful lot like the space needed for the installer + installed files + temporary update files + cached and static data. Still, 16GB is probably too little for what you want to do.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
If by ramdisk you mean your comp using your harddrive as a sort of psuedo memory like the old dos days smartdrive.exe I think you a) with 16gb won't ever find yourself running out of memory to the extent you would need a ramdisk and b) if you did run out of 16gb of memory be better to find out why your pc is broken...

If by ramdrive you mean sshd, no idea...
By ramdisk, he probably means ramdisk — using your ram as a disk.


It's easy to do in the linux world

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnionFS

You can combine any file systems into one virtual file system that spans many types of devices.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-03-31 05:26:18 UTC
Slap an SSD in. Copy Eve to it. Job's a good 'un. Anything else is way more hassle than it is worth IMO.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Josef Djugashvilis
#25 - 2014-03-31 05:52:20 UTC
This has become another ego war thread.

Pity really.

This is not a signature.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#26 - 2014-03-31 08:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Rollaz wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
My brain tells me that playing EVE from the SSD outperforms your solution by far.




Is your idea doable? Yes.

Is there any upside, compared to using an SSD? No.



Necro.


I already have a PCIe SSD drive for my OS, I'm looking to add RamDrive with 32gb of ram to fully load the game on Ram instead of on the drive... Ram IS faster so I'm just wondering what kind of increase and where I'd see improvements. (under what circumstances)

tbh, the moment you will see a difference will be when loading assets like opening a hangar with a shitload if items.

that's about the only thing you might notice an increase, and i am not even sure it would be noticeable unless you are close to the item # limit of a hangar.

i do have a corp hangar that is often at that limit, and it doesn't take that long to load, 1-2 second top, running eve from a simple crucial M4 256Gb ssd with 16GB DDR3 and a 2600k.

so it is possible to put the eve folder on a RAM drive, easier is to install on a regular disk, then creat ramdrive, mount ramdrive, copy eve folder to it, start eve from ramdrive, then either setup you pref or copy them from a backup and you are done.
(check %appdata%\eve\ for that, the rest is pretty straight forward, ignore/delete the cache, the important settings are a few Mbytes)

for updates, you might have to update on regular disk then copy again from HDD/SSD to RAM drive.

this is the easiest way, now imao, not worth it for eve, on my end i didn't noticed any noticeable gain in performances.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-03-31 14:00:09 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If by ramdisk you mean your comp using your harddrive as a sort of psuedo memory like the old dos days smartdrive.exe I think you a) with 16gb won't ever find yourself running out of memory to the extent you would need a ramdisk and b) if you did run out of 16gb of memory be better to find out why your pc is broken...

If by ramdrive you mean sshd, no idea...


I think he means ramdrive ie turning part of his memory into a virtual drive. I wouldn't think you would see any performance increase any more doing that since most drives are as fast as system memory now.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#28 - 2014-03-31 14:17:45 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
I think he means ramdrive ie turning part of his memory into a virtual drive. I wouldn't think you would see any performance increase any more doing that since most drives are as fast as system memory now.

What you just described would be faster than the fastest SSD, as SSD are currently limited by the SATA III connection.

Typical DDR3 now runs at 2133 million transactions per second, with each one being 8 bytes. SATA III is around 550 MB/s (6 Gbits/s with 10b8 encoding and overhead)

Now that being stated, SSD are pretty frellin' fast.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#29 - 2014-03-31 14:39:19 UTC
OP, do you understand how computers work on a technical level or have you just followed some guides and heard some buzzwords? If it's the latter, you are going to struggle and in either case are likely to just be wasting your money. A RAMdisk just means that you can speed up your file IO, as the hard drive doesn't need to fetch data, it can all be grabbed straight from the ram. Now that sounds great and all, but when playing games you are not generally waiting on file IO, you're waiting on the GPU, CPU or paging your ram. Now seeing that you are going to be using the majority of your Ram as a hard drive, that's likely to increase paging, meaning your system will be dumping memory to the hard drive.

What you would be better off doing is to keep the installed game running on your SSD, moving your game cache to the RAMdisk and disabling paging (if you are certain that your aren't going to be running enough applications side by side to exceed your RAM limit).

That said, the chances of you seeing any improvement beyond initial load times and first time caching is slim. It certainly won't help with large scale battles as that's not generally the game waiting on the hard drive.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#30 - 2014-03-31 14:42:54 UTC
ASUS and INTERL have a solution that turns your whole ssd into a hybrid. SSD is faster but the hybrid solution of course adjusts to changes in what your playing on the fly without having to move programs around. I'm not sure I recall eve using the disk after intitial load So ramdisk even swapping out for client changes isn't going to be the best use of that memory. You need to be doing video editing or very large format photshop manipulations. Server throughputs are affected by memory too.
Rollaz
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#31 - 2014-05-08 22:27:48 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
OP, do you understand how computers work on a technical level or have you just followed some guides and heard some buzzwords? If it's the latter, you are going to struggle and in either case are likely to just be wasting your money. A RAMdisk just means that you can speed up your file IO, as the hard drive doesn't need to fetch data, it can all be grabbed straight from the ram. Now that sounds great and all, but when playing games you are not generally waiting on file IO, you're waiting on the GPU, CPU or paging your ram. Now seeing that you are going to be using the majority of your Ram as a hard drive, that's likely to increase paging, meaning your system will be dumping memory to the hard drive.

What you would be better off doing is to keep the installed game running on your SSD, moving your game cache to the RAMdisk and disabling paging (if you are certain that your aren't going to be running enough applications side by side to exceed your RAM limit).

That said, the chances of you seeing any improvement beyond initial load times and first time caching is slim. It certainly won't help with large scale battles as that's not generally the game waiting on the hard drive.



So that sounds like the direction I can go in...

Now let's see if we can find out WHAT specific folders the game cache for Eve are, and if anyone has done this before, and if there have been issues with upgrades etc, after moving the cache files.

HAVE FUN - MAKE ISK - NO DRAMA No Api's   -   No Wars   -   No Awoxing   -   No Kidding! Hogs is OPEN for recruiting!  Join our in-game channel "Airhogs"
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-05-08 23:12:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Brian Harrelstein
Rollaz wrote:
At first, I downloaded the 4 mb EVE installer and dropped it on my ramdisk and the installer complained that it needed 22gb of free space for the install ?!? Last I heard Eve needed 12gb of space, so what's up wit dat CCP?


Download and install files. That means you need twice the amount of space to install it.

---

I agree that SSD is the best way to go.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#33 - 2014-05-08 23:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If by ramdisk you mean your comp using your harddrive as a sort of psuedo memory
um no that is not ramdisk at all. Not even close.

Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Slap an SSD in. Copy Eve to it. Job's a good 'un. Anything else is way more hassle than it is worth IMO.

That's what he is loading the ramdisk from.


Anyway, I've configured this on a Linux server operating as a game server, but never to windows running EVE. You're load times and such will improve, but you are still relying a lot of CPU and GPU to really improve performance. If you are running a database that is being constantly accessed, excellent improvements, but for a game client I've never really seen the point of setting it up for that.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-05-08 23:22:17 UTC
Of course the fact that that post was wrong had already been established four months ago.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#35 - 2014-05-08 23:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course the fact that that post was wrong had already been established four months ago.

ah true. I read the OP time into the date and thought it was two days old. And there I was all excited FV was back for giggles. meh necrophiliacs and the threads they bump, what can ya do? Oh well, he bumped his own thread anyway, so still fair game.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-05-09 02:01:24 UTC
Webvan wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course the fact that that post was wrong had already been established four months ago.

ah true. I read the OP time into the date and thought it was two days old. And there I was all excited FV was back for giggles. meh necrophiliacs and the threads they bump, what can ya do? Oh well, he bumped his own thread anyway, so still fair game.

I was tempted to reply to one of the first page posts as well, so I understand.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#37 - 2014-05-09 03:29:21 UTC
Andski wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
except im correct


except you're not and you're piping up and spewing out totally unrelated computing terms like if you were on a detective show

unless you want to tell us how you could possibly think that the OP is confusing an SSD - physical storage hardware that he did not mention at all - and a software ramdisk


I still think NCIS was more cringeworthy for its crimes against computing.
Previous page12