EVE General Discussion

I dont understand how you can actually say these two things in the same post and not know you are being hypocritical


We are honoured by your presence, Your Majesty

A warning would be "nice", but its not a term you can claim you are entitled to.

Concretely also, the ways these things work on a practical level, there are sometimes different people handling specific instances.

I, for example, received two warnings from two different authority people, almost simultaneously, for the same one improper use of language ingame, in one incident.

I sent a ticket therafter, not disputing that I had been wrong (though I suppose I could have), but to double check I didnt get double marked for the same infraction.

Turns out I had been, and the situatiin was corrected.

Trust CCP. I do. Else I wouldnt be giving them my money.

In theory at least, it is perfectly acceptable and fine, for someone with a scam in mind, for example, to contact CCP with the specifics and ask directly that "would this be ok?" This seems counter-intuitive, but actually its extremely prudent to do so, escpecially if your scam is very unusual and unprecedented. I think its safe to say CCP wont ban you for asking :D To my reading they even actively encourage you to do so. TNOs entire operation, for example, was auditted and on consultation with CCP, ensured that it fits their ingame policy as acceptable.

There have been unofficiated reports that Erotica1 would have done just that, and asked CCP is his conduct inline with their policy, to which I seem to remember CSM Malcanis saying he had intent to look into that.

Insofar as that, and as CSM have stated they feel Erotica1 was given due process, and their agreement and support of the issued statement is written therein, Im am happy with the outcome, and feel that this has been done fairly, and the result is "good".

Ive ranted that CSM are not representative of me personally, but Ive never argued that they arent representative of the player base.
This case, in particular, has shown the value of this ingame representative body as both a watchdog for player interests, as well as a group we, as players, atleast nominally, can trust to represent our interests as players to the governing body that is CCP.

Forum warrioring has been fun, especially on such an important issue and one I feel and think strongly about, and Ive gotten to meet a lot of outspoken individuals in the community here. Very smart people in the mix. EVE certainly deserves its reputation in that regard. I think its great that the forums are such an extenestion of the game. They fuflill, quite literally, the meaning of the word "forum". We are a community, and its important we talk and express ourselves in that regard.

If I may, Id like to share an original quote with you for consideration:
"You are only as free, as you allow others to be" -Me.

Now, back to the gaming side of things. Ive got quotas to fill for PLEX and a virtual space empire to build! :P

So its Lord of The Flies still relevant to all of this or are we past that already?

This entire thread is extremely confusing.

Well, just keep in mind that communications are a hell of a lot better than they used to be. But yes, there is still room for improvement, especially over things such as this.

This isn't the first time that there was a backlash over bad press. In the 9 years I have been playing, situations like this sprout up every so often, and are handled in a way that would suggest everybody forgot about the way it was handled the time prior.

Short term memory on part of the community and CCP? Maybe...

That could very well be the root of the problem.

Ok, tell that to all the new guys joining and being told: BE THE VILLAIN.
The don't know who got banned when for what.
A warning is commone sense.

D.

A warning is common sense. Except when you go way over the line. Nobody will tell you where the line is. If you want to play around where the line is, you have to be willing to accept that you are taking the 'ultimate' risk. Effectively permadeath.

Kind of like the ultimate risk vs. reward balance. You want to be a villain? Go for it. But know that if you cross the line there is a chance that you will run afoul of the game masters and end up out of game. The line is really wide and kind of obscure and fuzzy, but nobody knows where that is. Anyone who plays on the edges of the line can get caught up in it.

You are gambling with your entire in-game life. Risking it all for some form of reward. Which makes the game great. Because you *can* play on the edges and be successful at it. But there is always the chance that you go too far. I've played on that edge before. Months of blog posts and forum posts that are very embarrassing to certain people. And I did it knowing that I was very much running a risk that I could at any point generate enough noise and enough complaints that I could catch a ban or a warning. And years of investment and time and stories could get wiped out instantly. But I knew and realized it.

What makes EvE great is that the line isn't a straight edge, well defined line. You can play on that edge, or even play right on the line, or even in some cases over the edge of the line. But you do so at your own risk, with the full knowledge that at some point it can all come crashing down.

Many people see this lack of a definitive line as a problem. Those that do are not willing to risk it. Effectively they want to 'be the villain' without risk. And that in reality should not be. There is risk to everything in EvE. Some risks are greater than others. We speak a lot about mitigating that risk. Don't go out in what you can't afford to replace. Don't fly into a situation that you know will get you killed. Bring friends, bring logistics, bring a cyno. Playing on the edges of 'unacceptable behavior' carries a larger risk than anything else you can do in the game. And failure to research it and find out what the precedents are, where lines have been drawn in the past, and by reading a hell of a lot figuring out where the line is moving (because yes boys and girls, the line does move over the years) and adapting your behavior to match is the only risk mitigation you have on this particular play style.

CCP has effectively stated 'We cannot define what is over the line. But we will know it when we see it and take appropriate action' and at this point, we are either going to have to take that statement and accept that we will never have a clear definition of 'How far can I go' or 'Under what circumstances can I catch a ban', or we can stop playing the game against that line and maybe go do something safer. The choice is up to you. Are you going to continue doing 'bonus room activities' and posting the results on a third party site for the amusement of the masses and accept that you may catch a ban for your activities? Or are you going to do something safer.

Exactly! CCP needs to be clear. Their message should read something like this:

BE THE VILLAIN... IN GAME... NOT IN REAL LIFE. REFRAIN FROM MAKING PEOPLE SPREAD MAYO IN THEIR BODIES OUT OF GAME UNDER THE PRETENSE THAT IT'S STILL IN GAME. REFRAIN FROM REELING PEOPLE OUT OF THE GAME TO GRIEF THEM AND THEIR FAMILY OUT OF GAME.

I mean, come on, how are we supposed to know this stuff is crossing the line unless it's clearly stated in CCP's statements? Its almost as if CCP expects us to have some sort of common sense.

Continue to pass the buck.

Like Ripard stated in his last post this is all a side issue used by the Ero 1 apologists(errrrr obtuse "escrow agents") to somehow justify the depraved behavior exhibited in the Sohkar Bonus Room. The banning was rightly justified.

Take the common American ladder.

Is it covered in placards until you can barely see aluminum because Americans are too stupid to be expected to climb a few steps up and then a few steps down without putting themselves in the hospital? (Well, maybe. But that's a different thread)

Those placards are there to prevent legal liability in a country where reputations are made on finding that one little loophole by some bottom feeding maggot (read: lawyer) for a massive payday.

Many of us enjoy fighting other players. Our UI set-ups reflect this. You can barely see the actual game with all the windows open. Now picture your screen instead covered in warning messages, flashy bits and Y/N pop-ups because CCP has to cover it's legal ass after you lot got your whiny way and forced them into writing specific rules to cover every little thing.

Think and use the brain you were born with before you go off the deep end as is so common in here.

Bottom line is that after you force CCP into screwing themselves, you can just go do the same thing to another game company. They don't have that option. They need to nip this **** in the bud and that's what they did.

Boo hoo for you.

Mr Epeen

Really? Just after you quoted Niemoller's famous quote about the Holocaust to make your point about how you disapprove of CCP's enforcement actions?

Inconsistent much?