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Unanchoring Dead POS's

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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#21 - 2014-03-31 11:02:42 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
1) Wardec corp that owns POS

2) Blow up POS

3) Install your POS

4) Profit!

Alternatively (like most things in EVE) you can pay someone to do 1-2 for you.


^ That, works perfectly! Is the way I lost mineLol (faction tower for crying out loud). Cry
Drakast
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-03-31 11:03:45 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
I have a better idea... they should "decay", and if they're offline for a certain period of time, let's say 45 or 60 days, you can access them and use them yourself, all you have to do is put fuel in, and it's yours. It automatically changes corps and so on. That would be cool, eh? Lol


although its a better idea than the OP its still a terrible idea. wheres the unlike button?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#23 - 2014-03-31 11:04:18 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

For there to be a solution, one first needs a problem. There is no problem. If the moon is abandoned, someone will take it off as and when they want it.
The only reason there are offline POSes is because there isn't enough demand (in that location) to make it worthwhile.

Though I guess if you all want to go suspect instead of keeping concord on your side and AFKing it in an oracle or two, go ahead. Pirate


Well its pain to WD a dead corp to remove a derelict

I dont have to wardec the family of the original owner of a derelic shop in a city to buy the plot from the council

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#24 - 2014-03-31 11:06:05 UTC
First off, wardec mechanics exist for this very reason. An offline POS is not automatically an abandoned POS. I have alts with POSes in high sec, and often they can go weeks at a time shut down to save fuel when I don't need them. Wardec them and my main gets a nice notification and I swoop in to save the day (or more accurately, I contact some people I know that like murdering people and they swoop in to save the day). You shouldn't just get to freely blap someone else's stuff in highsec just because you don't want it there and can't be bothered to try either negotiating or fighting for it.

Secondly, a suspect flag would be quite amusing. A bunch of DPS heavy battleships shooting a POS for ages with a suspect timer? Talk about handing out kills. Most people would simply pay the cheap ass 50m wardec fee just so they could AFK their battleships during the shoot and not worry about everyone in the region coming to kill them.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#25 - 2014-03-31 11:42:05 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
First off, wardec mechanics exist for this very reason. An offline POS is not automatically an abandoned POS.


True, but what about the ones that are?

And what about exploiting the system in places other than highsec simply as a "towel on a sunlounger"?

Im not trying to start an argument here, Id like to know your opinion on the second, and the first just bugs me.

Lucas Kell wrote:
Secondly, a suspect flag would be quite amusing. A bunch of DPS heavy battleships shooting a POS for ages with a suspect timer? Talk about handing out kills.


Exactly

That would be Hilarious

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Salvos Rhoska
#26 - 2014-03-31 11:56:06 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I have alts with POSes in high sec, and often they can go weeks at a time shut down to save fuel when I don't need them. Wardec them and my main gets a nice notification and I swoop in to save the day (or more accurately, I contact some people I know that like murdering people and they swoop in to save the day).


Exactly the problem.

What the hell are you doing with unfueled POS for weeks on end in high-sec?

Use em or lose em.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#27 - 2014-03-31 12:11:41 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
True, but what about the ones that are?

And what about exploiting the system in places other than highsec simply as a "towel on a sunlounger"?

Im not trying to start an argument here, Id like to know your opinion on the second, and the first just bugs me.
My opinion is that there is already a method to get rid of them. Someone put the effort, time and isk into setting up their POS, and you need to spend effort time and isk to remove it. It really doesn't matter the degree to which they use it.

Ramona McCandless wrote:
Exactly

That would be Hilarious
Except they'd then be back here again complaining that suspect timers are mean as they mean anyone can kill them, and it should just be a limited engagement with the owning corp or something. It's the foot in the door effect.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Exactly the problem.

What the hell are you doing with unfueled POS for weeks on end in high-sec?

Use em or lose em.
Then take it from me, the mechanics are there to do so. Why should you be handed stuff for free just because your too lazy to spend the 50m isk and the time it takes to destroy a POS? Why should what I want to do be removed simply because you disagree with it? People like you want to be handed everything for free like some kind of benefits system. Take action and do things for yourself, and if you're too lazy to do that then lose out. It's that simple.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Setsune Rin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-03-31 12:43:56 UTC
all of these changes require touching the POS code

aka not going to happen...ever....
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#29 - 2014-03-31 12:48:13 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
True, but what about the ones that are?

And what about exploiting the system in places other than highsec simply as a "towel on a sunlounger"?

Im not trying to start an argument here, Id like to know your opinion on the second, and the first just bugs me.
My opinion is that there is already a method to get rid of them. Someone put the effort, time and isk into setting up their POS, and you need to spend effort time and isk to remove it. It really doesn't matter the degree to which they use it.



Then I would like an item that is a POS tower filled with concrete like a bollard that I can start deploying all over just to block everyone's use of moons I think are pretty :)

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-03-31 12:48:42 UTC
Setsune Rin wrote:
all of these changes require touching the POS code

aka not going to happen...ever....


^^ Pretty much... in for a penny, in for a Pound -- they might as well change it all while they are at it.

Bugs, glitches... free moon mins... we wouldn't want that to happen again. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Ulasdair Macauselan
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-03-31 13:21:10 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
I have a better idea... they should "decay", and if they're offline for a certain period of time, let's say 45 or 60 days, you can access them and use them yourself, all you have to do is put fuel in, and it's yours. It automatically changes corps and so on. That would be cool, eh? Lol


No, because if you really want that moon you should have to take it. It isn't hard to wardec someone and then bring in some high dps battleships (torp ravens work great) and grind it down. Remember this tower is offline and undefended.


And if the owner of the POS "wanted that POS" he should fuel it and keep it active, eh?

Of course "offline and undefended" POS should be universally unanchorable, like any abandoned sitting-in-space asset should be.

No, it's not particularly hard to blow it up, but if it's abandoned (i.e. offline, non-functional = abandoned) then sorry, it's fair game for the vultures of space to snag it.

Lazy POS owners will be the only ones against such a change, because they all want the safest easiest activity-free isk possible. Oops, forgot to fuel my free-moon-mins POS, lolz, it's ok it's offline cause no one is going to come blow it up.

Lame mechanic is lame.
Ulasdair Macauselan
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-03-31 13:24:43 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Then take it from me, the mechanics are there to do so. Why should you be handed stuff for free just because your too lazy to spend the 50m isk and the time it takes to destroy a POS? Why should what I want to do be removed simply because you disagree with it? People like you want to be handed everything for free like some kind of benefits system. Take action and do things for yourself, and if you're too lazy to do that then lose out. It's that simple.


Conversely, why should YOUR abandoned, inactive, unfuelled, offline itme be safe from theft sitting all alone, undefended by you, in space?

You already get free moon minerals without doing any actual work beyond unloading it.

Sorry, lazy players like you defending poorly thought out mechanics are part of why change, real positive change, is so hard to get.

Offline, inactive and you're not in-space defending it? Sorry, it should be unanchorable by anyone.

Next time, keep your POS fueled and active.
Salvos Rhoska
#33 - 2014-03-31 13:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lucas Kell wrote:
Why should you be handed stuff for free just because your too lazy to spend the 50m isk and the time it takes to destroy a POS? Why should what I want to do be removed simply because you disagree with it? People like you want to be handed everything for free like some kind of benefits system. Take action and do things for yourself, and if you're too lazy to do that then lose out. It's that simple.


You are the one who expects to be able to lazily keep his POS up for free and unfueled in high-sec for weeks on end :D

Some introspection, please.

In any other sector of space, it would have been obliterated already and someone else actually using the slot actively.

Use it, or lose it.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#34 - 2014-03-31 14:05:16 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
True, but what about the ones that are?

And what about exploiting the system in places other than highsec simply as a "towel on a sunlounger"?

Im not trying to start an argument here, Id like to know your opinion on the second, and the first just bugs me.
My opinion is that there is already a method to get rid of them. Someone put the effort, time and isk into setting up their POS, and you need to spend effort time and isk to remove it. It really doesn't matter the degree to which they use it.
Then I would like an item that is a POS tower filled with concrete like a bollard that I can start deploying all over just to block everyone's use of moons I think are pretty :)
That item exists. It's called a control tower. It blocks off moons until players dismantle it. Feel free to plant as many down as you like.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#35 - 2014-03-31 14:09:53 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

Im not trying to start an argument here, Id like to know your opinion on the second, and the first just bugs me.
My opinion is that there is already a method to get rid of them. Someone put the effort, time and isk into setting up their POS, and you need to spend effort time and isk to remove it. It really doesn't matter the degree to which they use it.[/quote]Then I would like an item that is a POS tower filled with concrete like a bollard that I can start deploying all over just to block everyone's use of moons I think are pretty :)[/quote]That item exists. It's called a control tower. It blocks off moons until players dismantle it. Feel free to plant as many down as you like.[/quote]

So should the same rationale not be applied to the tower's modules too?

And what is an inactive tower doing that its preventing another being set up?

Seriously dude, they make no logical sense and the POS overhaul wont be a moment too soon coming.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#36 - 2014-03-31 14:12:58 UTC
Ulasdair Macauselan wrote:
And if the owner of the POS "wanted that POS" he should fuel it and keep it active, eh?

Of course "offline and undefended" POS should be universally unanchorable, like any abandoned sitting-in-space asset should be.
No other anchored structure can be unanchored universally. Why should it have to be online to be kept? Being online just means it has a shield making it harder to take down. An offline POS should still take more than ZERO effort to remove, and it does. It takes 50m and a variable amount of time in a single go.

Ulasdair Macauselan wrote:
Conversely, why should YOUR abandoned, inactive, unfuelled, offline itme be safe from theft sitting all alone, undefended by you, in space?

You already get free moon minerals without doing any actual work beyond unloading it.

Sorry, lazy players like you defending poorly thought out mechanics are part of why change, real positive change, is so hard to get.

Offline, inactive and you're not in-space defending it? Sorry, it should be unanchorable by anyone.

Next time, keep your POS fueled and active.
It's not safe from theft. It's not even remotely safe from theft. It's just not "Free to steal" which is what you want. You want to put in no effort and get a payout. Tough luck.

And no high sec POS gets free moon minerals. Any POS that gets free moon minerals has to be online and in a section of space that requires no wardecs.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#37 - 2014-03-31 14:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You are the one who expects to be able to lazily keep his POS up for free and unfueled in high-sec for weeks on end :D

Some introspection, please.

In any other sector of space, it would have been obliterated already and someone else actually using the slot actively.

Use it, or lose it.
I had to put in the effort to get it there in the first place. Why should you be able to just come along and undo all of that for absolutely nothing?

If you don't like it, you are free to wardec it and take the space. By all means proceed to do that. But you can;t just go stomping along and taking away other peoples things just because in YOUR opinion they don't use them enough.

And no, it's not "use it or lose it". It's "take it or **** off". That's unlikely to change based on the fact that this exact same thing has been asked for for years on end. I'm pretty sure before I entirely thought about the mechanics that I myself have asked for this.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Salvos Rhoska
#38 - 2014-03-31 14:20:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lucas Kell wrote:
had to put in the effort to get it there in the first place. Why should you be able to just come along and undo all of that for absolutely nothing?


I haven't said for nothing. I don't agree with OP's idea of just scooping it into cargo.
Nice attempt at misrepresentation though!

I solicited and agreed with the notion of making attacking them issue a suspect flag.

You still have to blow the thing up, as usual.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#39 - 2014-03-31 14:25:03 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I haven't said for nothing. I don't agree with OP's idea of just scooping it into cargo.

I solicited and agreed with the notion of making attacking them issue a suspect flag.

You still have to blow the thing up, as usual.
Which is effectively nothing, since an offline POS is a trivial kill. The only difference with a suspect flag is that it would mean that people would bait other into attacking offline POSes then gank them, and it would lead to the "foot in the door" effect of making the change from suspect flag to limited engagement less of an argument.

Also, how long would it need to be offline? If someone had an issue logging on and their POS dropped offline would it be instantly attackable? If it's on a time like 2 weeks or something, whats to stop us onlining it for 5 minutes every couple of weeks?

It has to be said though, are you really arguing against a 50m payment to kill a POS? How poverty stricken are you? Just pay the bill and blow it up. If you can't afford that, you can't afford to plonk your own POS down anyway.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Salvos Rhoska
#40 - 2014-03-31 14:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lucas Kell wrote:
The only difference with a suspect flag is that it would mean that people would bait other into attacking offline POSes then gank them, and it would lead to the "foot in the door" effect of making the change from suspect flag to limited engagement less of an argument.


Sounds good to me!

Lucas Kell wrote:
Also, how long would it need to be offline? If someone had an issue logging on and their POS dropped offline would it be instantly attackable? If it's on a time like 2 weeks or something, whats to stop us onlining it for 5 minutes every couple of weeks?

Attacking it being changed to a suspect flagging doesn't affect that one bit.
Are you having an imaginary discussion with fictional people that have said anything to this effect?

Lucas Kell wrote:
It has to be said though, are you really arguing against a 50m payment to kill a POS? How poverty stricken are you? Just pay the bill and blow it up. If you can't afford that, you can't afford to plonk your own POS down anyway.

Ooooh! Look who deliberately ignored the wardec timer vs sec status hit and imminent CONCORDoken?!

The thing you haven't realised yet, Lucas, about forum discussion, and one I would warn you about, is that people aren't as stupid as you think they are. Dishonesty by means of deliberate omission, is noted and reflects poorly on you.

Funny to hear carebear arguments from you though. Maybe you should just haul your ass back out of null to protect your high-sec assets you keep unused and unfueled for weeks on end?

Changing attacking POS to suspect flag sounds great to me.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent