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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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GrowlingMadScientist
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1741 - 2014-03-31 09:08:19 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:

I would buy this if Sokhar had been keeping in contact with erotica. Evidence shows the only interaction these 2 parties had were last month when the scam took place, and just last week after the **** hit the fan. Also did you even listen to the last half hour of the scam recording. Do you really think he was having a bonding experience with Erotica? Sounds to me like he wanted to rip Erotica's head off.

So again what does 'Stockholm syndrome' have anything to do with this case?


From what I have read, Sokhar has defended/played down what had happened. And if that's the case a mild 'Stockholm syndrome' could be an explanation.

I haven't heard the recording of the later interactions you mentioned, though. In any case the opinion of the 'victim' does not matter much, just as in the case of domestic violence. If someone gets injured the authorities will act, even if the victim defends the perpetrator. At least in most civilized countries I guess.
Asia Leigh
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#1742 - 2014-03-31 09:09:15 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
And if Erotica1 and Co had never taken their activities to such extremes for as long as they did, none of this would have happened.

This is the status quo. Adapt and HTFU :)


You know, these two sentences together have made your point far clearer than any of your previous posts have.

Given my recent comment in the other near-identical thread in GD, I can see what youve been trying to say.

I suppose that shows that when things are looked at without an emotional reaction involved, even positions which seem to be polarised from each other can be a lot closer.

+1 buddy.

+1


See we could make this a threesome, if you could accept that people need to be warned by CCP when they are crossing the invisible line. When warned you get the chance to adapt and HTFU, if not warned you don't need to because it's all good.

D.

Bear


Although I have made my stance known, We are all assuming he wasn't warned. Perhaps he was and thats why his sanction was so severe. Since CCP wont make a statement based on actions taken on somebody's account we will never know.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1743 - 2014-03-31 09:13:48 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Danalee wrote:
See we could make this a threesome, if you could accept that people need to be warned by CCP when they are crossing the invisible line. When warned you get the chance to adapt and HTFU, if not warned you don't need to because it's all good.


I do not accept that, or agree with it. Nor is it true.


Pray tell, why would someone adapt anything if his actions are condoned than?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1744 - 2014-03-31 09:15:56 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
And if Erotica1 and Co had never taken their activities to such extremes for as long as they did, none of this would have happened.

This is the status quo. Adapt and HTFU :)


You know, these two sentences together have made your point far clearer than any of your previous posts have.

Given my recent comment in the other near-identical thread in GD, I can see what youve been trying to say.

I suppose that shows that when things are looked at without an emotional reaction involved, even positions which seem to be polarised from each other can be a lot closer.

+1 buddy.

+1


See we could make this a threesome, if you could accept that people need to be warned by CCP when they are crossing the invisible line. When warned you get the chance to adapt and HTFU, if not warned you don't need to because it's all good.



Although I have made my stance known, We are all assuming he wasn't warned. Perhaps he was and thats why his sanction was so severe. Since CCP wont make a statement based on actions taken on somebody's account we will never know.


He wasn't warned, he stated as much in different threads and reached out to CCP to tell him what they thought about it only to be treated with the silence treatment and a ban.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Asia Leigh
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#1745 - 2014-03-31 09:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Asia Leigh
GrowlingMadScientist wrote:

From what I have read, Sokhar has defended/played down what had happened. And if that's the case a mild 'Stockholm syndrome' could be an explanation.


See below

Asia Leigh wrote:

Edit: Also in the latest recording Sohkar also states he didn't want to join Erotica's corp, be a bonus room agent, or really have anything to do with erotica... So theirs that too


GrowingMadScientist wrote:

In any case the opinion of the 'victim' does not matter much, just as in the case of domestic violence. If someone gets injured the authorities will act, even if the victim defends the perpetrator. At least in most civilized countries I guess.


I'm guessing you don't live in the US with its corrupt judicial system, lol

But you do have a point. I guess I'm more upset about the way this came to light and the apparent strong arming of CCP to take the action they did then anything else. My only concern is would CCP had taken this action if ripard had not written his post and threatened to go to the news media with it.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Salvos Rhoska
#1746 - 2014-03-31 10:01:32 UTC
CSMs have stated they are satisfied Erotica1's side of things was duly considered and represented, and the statement issued carries their approval.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Sarel Hendar
Avanto
Hole Control
#1747 - 2014-03-31 10:49:02 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Sorry, but something got lost in translation.

Besides: Anarchy - a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.

A situation of confusion and wild behavior in which the people in a country, group, organization, etc., are not controlled by rules or laws

An - Archy. Without rulers.

Anarchy is simply self rule. It has nothing to do with a lack of order. Order emerges from social interaction. Like in Eve. There is no top down rule of how to make or run a corp, or even how to run that corp or play this game. The players self organize and do things.

"confusion" "wild behavior" is nonsense. Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"?

Go into any city on a friday night, and observe people in a space with a lot of rules and laws and enforcement. Does that seem "peaceful"?

Something to think about.


I believe the term you're looking for is "chaos", as in "societal chaos". Many would-be dictators and other varieties of totalitarians deliberately attempt to confuse that situation with anarchy to further their own aims.
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1748 - 2014-03-31 10:52:34 UTC
Danalee wrote:


He wasn't warned, he stated as much in different threads and reached out to CCP to tell him what they thought about it only to be treated with the silence treatment and a ban.

D.

Bear

While I think E1 took his bonus round stuff too far I loathe CCP's ways in this matter. Not acting for years and then when controversy breaks out smash the ban hammer without warning... Yesyes, we all know they can basicly do whatever they want based on their EULA/TOS but this is just taking the easy way out...
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1749 - 2014-03-31 10:53:37 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:


Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"?

Go into any city on a friday night, and observe people in a space with a lot of rules and laws and enforcement. Does that seem "peaceful"?


This is the most disingenuous comparsion I have read in a very long time.

It would be helpful to aligning people with your point of view and helping them agree if real examples of societies where Anarchies didnt devolve into chaos could be cited, please.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Bael Malefic
Doomheim
#1750 - 2014-03-31 10:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Bael Malefic
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:

While I think E1 took his bonus round stuff too far I loathe CCP's ways in this matter. Not acting for years and then when controversy breaks out smash the ban hammer without warning... Yesyes, we all know they can basicly do whatever they want based on their EULA/TOS but this is just taking the easy way out...


And it still goes on.

EVE = an online entertainment service (a game) operated by CCP.

CCP, as the service provider, makes the rules and interprets them as they see fit. Including, from time to time, banning users who they feel have behaved in a manner that could damage the service or bring their brand into disrepute.

It just so happens that CCP likes to keep the rules pretty fast and loose, to enable all sorts of emergent game play and role play. But, inevitably, there are those who will go too far.

Don't expect somebody to hold your hand and tell you exactly where the boundaries are.

Do pay attention and, when somebody crosses a line and gets banned, remember what they did. That's probably a useful indication of where one or more of the boundaries might be. You might want to adjust your play style, if necessary, to avoid a similar outcome.

If you are too thick/immature/selfish to understand that, please, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

The sheer volume of puerile, self-entitled b.s. evident in this and related threads is staggering.

[EDIT: to specify the quote this is in response to]
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1751 - 2014-03-31 11:24:06 UTC
^^ what he said
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1752 - 2014-03-31 11:48:20 UTC
Bael Malefic wrote:
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:

While I think E1 took his bonus round stuff too far I loathe CCP's ways in this matter. Not acting for years and then when controversy breaks out smash the ban hammer without warning... Yesyes, we all know they can basicly do whatever they want based on their EULA/TOS but this is just taking the easy way out...


And it still goes on.

EVE = an online entertainment service (a game) operated by CCP.

CCP, as the service provider, makes the rules and interprets them as they see fit. Including, from time to time, banning users who they feel have behaved in a manner that could damage the service or bring their brand into disrepute.

It just so happens that CCP likes to keep the rules pretty fast and loose, to enable all sorts of emergent game play and role play. But, inevitably, there are those who will go too far.

Don't expect somebody to hold your hand and tell you exactly where the boundaries are.

Do pay attention and, when somebody crosses a line and gets banned, remember what they did. That's probably a useful indication of where one or more of the boundaries might be. You might want to adjust your play style, if necessary, to avoid a similar outcome.

If you are too thick/immature/selfish to understand that, please, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

The sheer volume of puerile, self-entitled b.s. evident in this and related threads is staggering.

[EDIT: to specify the quote this is in response to]


So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better?
Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.

Don't fret, If you are too thick/immature/selfish to even consider a fair warning to be in the best interest of everyone involved I implore you to keep sticking your head in the sand.

Quoting the good pastor Martin Niemöller;

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
#1753 - 2014-03-31 11:57:27 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Bael Malefic wrote:
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:

While I think E1 took his bonus round stuff too far I loathe CCP's ways in this matter. Not acting for years and then when controversy breaks out smash the ban hammer without warning... Yesyes, we all know they can basicly do whatever they want based on their EULA/TOS but this is just taking the easy way out...


And it still goes on.

EVE = an online entertainment service (a game) operated by CCP.

CCP, as the service provider, makes the rules and interprets them as they see fit. Including, from time to time, banning users who they feel have behaved in a manner that could damage the service or bring their brand into disrepute.

It just so happens that CCP likes to keep the rules pretty fast and loose, to enable all sorts of emergent game play and role play. But, inevitably, there are those who will go too far.

Don't expect somebody to hold your hand and tell you exactly where the boundaries are.

Do pay attention and, when somebody crosses a line and gets banned, remember what they did. That's probably a useful indication of where one or more of the boundaries might be. You might want to adjust your play style, if necessary, to avoid a similar outcome.

If you are too thick/immature/selfish to understand that, please, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

The sheer volume of puerile, self-entitled b.s. evident in this and related threads is staggering.

[EDIT: to specify the quote this is in response to]


So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better?
Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.

Don't fret, If you are too thick/immature/selfish to even consider a fair warning to be in the best interest of everyone involved I implore you to keep sticking your head in the sand.

Quoting the good pastor Martin Niemöller;

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

D.

Bear

Oh please. Scamming, griefing or even playing in online game is hardly comparable to loss of liberty and life in real world. CCP has every right to deny service to anyone they want and they really should keep their cards hidden so as to force people think whether they are going too far or not.

As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1754 - 2014-03-31 11:59:39 UTC
CCP have stated they take into account the age of a player who plays the dangerous game

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Salvos Rhoska
#1755 - 2014-03-31 12:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
The slippery slope argument slips both ways.

Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct.

It is exactly to prevent that sliding, that action must be taken.

And what has prompted that action, is a group of people "sliding" down that side of the mountain into a place that the game doesn't want to be.

Erotica1, with his extreme and protracted actions, has jeapordised all of our freedom.
Its exactly people that abuse the levity of existing laws, that force society to implement stricter ones, whereas before, the existing ones where adequate.

This is no hero of freedom we are talking about here. Its someone who irresponsibly abused the freedom we had, to the result that now all of our freedom is under closer scrutiny and tighter parameters.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1756 - 2014-03-31 12:05:55 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
slips

slide into

sliding

a group of people "sliding" down

tighter


You press my buttons sometimes

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1757 - 2014-03-31 12:07:39 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The slippery slope argument slips both ways.

Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct.


Wow, never thought you'd be making my argument for me. Thanks!
So you agree a warning from CCP when you are behaving in a way the doesn't comply with their invisible line is prudent.
+1

Anna Karhunen wrote:
Oh please. Scamming, griefing or even playing in online game is hardly comparable to loss of liberty and life in real world. CCP has every right to deny service to anyone they want and they really should keep their cards hidden so as to force people think whether they are going too far or not.

Nice sidestep of the question, I'll paste it here for you to answer;
So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better?
Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.

I could agree with you if EVE online was free to play.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
#1758 - 2014-03-31 12:17:49 UTC
Danalee wrote:

Anna Karhunen wrote:
Oh please. Scamming, griefing or even playing in online game is hardly comparable to loss of liberty and life in real world. CCP has every right to deny service to anyone they want and they really should keep their cards hidden so as to force people think whether they are going too far or not.

Nice sidestep of the question, I'll paste it here for you to answer;
So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better?
Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.

I could agree with you if EVE online was free to play.

D.

Bear

If CCP returns the money paid for unused time (that is, if you paid that with money and not PLEX which can be bought with in game money), I am perfectly fine with them getting rid of players they don't want playing their game. It is up to CCP to decide whom they want in the game. If that means they only want sociopaths, sadists and such, then so be it. If they want us normal people, that is fine as well.

Your quoting Martin Niemöller and making allusions that banning toxic person like Erotica 1 (no idea if he is banned or not) would be akin to holocaust... I find all that rather distasteful, hyperbolic and indicative that you really should spend more time in real life instead of forums.

As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1759 - 2014-03-31 12:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
Anna Karhunen wrote:
Danalee wrote:

Anna Karhunen wrote:
Oh please. Scamming, griefing or even playing in online game is hardly comparable to loss of liberty and life in real world. CCP has every right to deny service to anyone they want and they really should keep their cards hidden so as to force people think whether they are going too far or not.

Nice sidestep of the question, I'll paste it here for you to answer;
So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better?
Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.

I could agree with you if EVE online was free to play.


If CCP returns the money paid for unused time (that is, if you paid that with money and not PLEX which can be bought with in game money), I am perfectly fine with them getting rid of players they don't want playing their game. It is up to CCP to decide whom they want in the game. If that means they only want sociopaths, sadists and such, then so be it. If they want us normal people, that is fine as well.

Your quoting Martin Niemöller and making allusions that banning toxic person like Erotica 1 (no idea if he is banned or not) would be akin to holocaust... I find all that rather distasteful, hyperbolic and indicative that you really should spend more time in real life instead of forums.


Ouch, I didn't hurt your feelings by quoting an appropriate quote, did I?
The allusions you found in a perfectly good quote are all on you.

Ok, CCP doesn't give refunds so again, should you get a warning if what you are doing crosses an unwritten rule?
Not so hard a question, or is it?
We are talking about in general, not about Erotica 1, Ripard, or any other "toxic elements" as you like to call fellow players.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Bael Malefic
Doomheim
#1760 - 2014-03-31 12:28:40 UTC
Danalee wrote:


So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better?
Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.

Don't fret, If you are too thick/immature/selfish to even consider a fair warning to be in the best interest of everyone involved I implore you to keep sticking your head in the sand.

Quoting the good pastor Martin Niemöller;

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

D.

Bear


Sounds like you can't handle ambiguity. Maybe when you grow up you will be better able to accept that things won't always be the way you want them to be. So sorry CCP doesn't do things the way you want all the time.

Warning? Never said I am against warnings. Warnings - like any other threat - are worthless without enforcement. Maybe Erotica 1 was warned before. In any case, still irrelevant - complaining about CCP's enforcement of their rules in their game is about as pointless as complaining about the weather.

As for quoting Niemoller - Do you really equivocate the holocaust with CCP banning some videogame assholes from a videogame for being assholes? Are you really that disconnected from reality?

You have an obvious choice. Nobody is forcing you to play.