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High sec Mission runners just got completely screwed by CCP

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#881 - 2014-03-30 17:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Mario Putzo wrote:


And more will be bought off the market in order to facilitate current production.

Spin it how ever you want, you can not remove 15% of all minerals in this game, without it impacting production.


the 3.7% drop in mission runner income from minerals is swallowed up by the up to 20% increase from null sec plus all of the POS which also provide more than we get now from refining.

There will be no reduction in mineral supply, it is simply shifting a little more from mission runners to miners. If anything there will be even MORE minerals on the markets.
Mario Putzo
#882 - 2014-03-30 17:21:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:


And more will be bought off the market in order to facilitate current production.

Spin it how ever you want, you can not remove 15% of all minerals in this game, without it impacting production.


the 3.7% drop in mission runner income from minerals is swallowed up by the up to 20% increase from null sec plus all of the POS which also provide more than we get now from refining.

There will be no reduction in mineral supply, it is simply shifting a little more from mission runners to miners.


Its not about income dipshit. It is the minerals people refine from the **** loot.

God damn.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#883 - 2014-03-30 17:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mario Putzo wrote:
Except removing 12-15% of ALL minerals in the game will impact mineral availability.
…a figure based on, what, exactly?
And since, again, there's nothing to suggest that there will be any less minerals available on the market, the effect on production will be nil (aside from the boosts to availability of facilities and logistics that is).

Quote:
Its not about income dipshit. It is the minerals people refine from the **** loot.
…and how much is that (and based on what)? Also, when compensated for by the increase in mining across the entire galaxy, how much (if any at all) does that equate to in terms of lowered total mineral availability?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#884 - 2014-03-30 17:24:37 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


Its not about income dipshit. It is the minerals people refine from the **** loot.

God damn.


Which is so small damn near nobody is going to notice.
Marsha Mallow
#885 - 2014-03-30 17:25:45 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Except removing 12-15% of ALL minerals in the game will impact mineral availability. Or was basic math to hard for you in school?

Similar arguments were made about drone poop, turned out to be twaddle.

Please, please don't make remarks like this to Trippia. It's basically a robot with a godawful pyramid quoting fetish - and much like my mother, it's almost always right. Don't make it subject us to 15 pages of bludgeoning you over the head until you shrivel. No offense, Trippia ;)

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#886 - 2014-03-30 18:09:17 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:

Similar arguments were made about drone poop, turned out to be twaddle.

It's basically a robot with a godawful pyramid quoting fetish - and much like my mother, it's almost always right. Don't make it subject us to 15 pages of bludgeoning you over the head until you shrivel. No offense, Trippia ;)


Awesome and appropriate definition. +1!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#887 - 2014-03-30 18:26:20 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Similar arguments were made about drone poop, turned out to be twaddle.

To put this into perspective, at one point, drone goo represented 23% of all the minerals coming into the game, including such standouts as 40% of all zyd and 51% of all nocx. When that source was removed, what happened? Not much. Harvesters shifted source, producers kept producing, and everyone was much happier with gunmining taking the lung-shot it so desperately needed.

If this change were to somehow generate a 15% drop in mineral influx (and I would really like to see a authoritative source that demonstrates how meta-1/2 drops somehow represent a quarter of the minerals being harvested in the game), then not only will things go on pretty much as normal, just like last time, but it also means that gunminng had survived far to long wheezing along with its remaining lung and that a second lung-shot is in order…
Seabhran Sihdrail
The Wyrd Collective
#888 - 2014-03-30 18:42:53 UTC
It sounds reasonable and realistic that most of the industrial "prima mater" comes from regular mining and prospecting.

Don't get me wrong. I love to recycle my trash, too. But I think these changes are pretty reasonable.
Marsha Mallow
#889 - 2014-03-30 18:42:57 UTC
Stage II - remove all loot from mission drops
Stage III - move level 4s to lowsec
Stage V - remove docking rights to certain stations if you don't have faction standings
Stage VI - remove Concord and let players form their own Police force

It'll be fine, nobody panic!

Bear

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Marsha Mallow
#890 - 2014-03-30 18:44:03 UTC
Still considering IV >.> I'll go back and slip it in

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Prince Kobol
#891 - 2014-03-30 18:53:33 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Stage II - remove all loot from mission drops
Stage III - move level 4s to lowsec
Stage V - remove docking rights to certain stations if you don't have faction standings
Stage VI - remove Concord and let players form their own Police force

It'll be fine, nobody panic!

Bear



I would no issue with stage II and V
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#892 - 2014-03-30 18:54:39 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Still considering IV >.> I'll go back and slip it in

Mandatory wardecs! …somehow… P
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#893 - 2014-03-30 19:02:50 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Stage II - remove all loot from mission drops
Stage III - move level 4s to lowsec
Stage V - remove docking rights to certain stations if you don't have faction standings
Stage VI - remove Concord and let players form their own Police force

It'll be fine, nobody panic!

Bear

Stage II: Actually make each meta item have a unique advantage/disadvantage, so that some are not relegated to the recycle bin by default.
Stage III: Take off your tinfoil hat.
Stage V: Doesn't affect my higsec alt, as he has positive standings to all Empire Factions. Lol
Stage VI: Goons running a Jita police and customs inspection force. I like you.Twisted Now pull over and prepare for our customs and safety "inspection".

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Mario Putzo
#894 - 2014-03-30 19:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Tippia wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Similar arguments were made about drone poop, turned out to be twaddle.

To put this into perspective, at one point, drone goo represented 23% of all the minerals coming into the game, including such standouts as 40% of all zyd and 51% of all nocx. When that source was removed, what happened? Not much. Harvesters shifted source, producers kept producing, and everyone was much happier with gunmining taking the lung-shot it so desperately needed.

If this change were to somehow generate a 15% drop in mineral influx (and I would really like to see a authoritative source that demonstrates how meta-1/2 drops somehow represent a quarter of the minerals being harvested in the game), then not only will things go on pretty much as normal, just like last time, but it also means that gunminng had survived far to long wheezing along with its remaining lung and that a second lung-shot is in order…


Ya they just started gun mining. Have you ever actually produced anything for any significant quantity?

You do know that loot at one point represented nearly half of all minerals entering the game right. Outside of Trit and Pyrite Gun Mining made up the majority source of the remainder for a long time. This has nothing to do with gun mining lasting to long, and everything to do with people not wanting to risk mining in LS and NS where the mid-high tier minerals are.

When drones died, people just moved to HS and started running LV4's and shipping that loot back out to DR for production minerals. Mining when drones were a thing made up a very tiny portion of mid-high range minerals, and it still makes up a tiny portion of them.

Production doesn't live on Trit and Pyrite alone, and if people haven't been risking their **** for superior isk/hr in LS or NS already, they definitely won't be after this change that essentially requires them to have a POS in order to maintain "the status quo".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#895 - 2014-03-30 19:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mario Putzo wrote:
Ya they just started gun mining.
No. It's been going on for quite some time, and they've been cutting down on it step by step for quite some time as well.

Quote:
Have you ever actually produced anything for any
It's how I make my ISK.

Quote:
You do know that loot at one point represented nearly half of all minerals entering the game right.
Do you have an actual source for this?

Quote:
When drones died, people just moved to HS and started running LV4's and shipping that loot back out to DR for production minerals. Mining when drones were a thing made up a very tiny portion of mid-high range minerals, and it still makes up a tiny portion of them.
…and for this?
Oh, and what is that 12–15% figure of yours based on?
Mario Putzo
#896 - 2014-03-30 19:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2012/mineralcompo.png (from a 2008 source acording to Ripard)

12-15% is based on 45% of approx 25-30% average of all minerals following the most recent changes to loot drops.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#897 - 2014-03-30 19:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mario Putzo wrote:
http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2012/mineralcompo.png

12-15% is based on 45% of approx 25-30% average of all minerals following the most recent changes to loot drops.

…and the source for that is?

e: Ok, you found the source. It's the same post I linked to previously. Now, if you go back and read that post, you'll notice something very interesting: it does not say that “loot” provides those percentages. It says that “modules, ships, charges, drones for example” does. In other words, it includes the amounts used for reprocessing. For all intents and purposes, it could all be compressed minerals and thus not represent anything generated — the actual sources would still be mining and drone poo — and you have no way of telling how much (if anything at all) low-meta loot contributes.

So your source does not actually say what you're saying; it says nothing about what happened after drone poo went the way of the dodo; it does not explain where you're getting that 12–15% number.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#898 - 2014-03-30 19:45:42 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2012/mineralcompo.png (from a 2008 source acording to Ripard)

12-15% is based on 45% of approx 25-30% average of all minerals following the most recent changes to loot drops.


You do realise that a few things have changed since that graph was produced?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mario Putzo
#899 - 2014-03-30 19:46:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2012/mineralcompo.png

12-15% is based on 45% of approx 25-30% average of all minerals following the most recent changes to loot drops.

…and the source for that is?


Some miner site from like 2008, as for the reduced % those are based on the % reductions to loot, and the removal of meta 0 items that have happened since this graph was made.
Mario Putzo
#900 - 2014-03-30 19:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Malcanis wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2012/mineralcompo.png (from a 2008 source acording to Ripard)

12-15% is based on 45% of approx 25-30% average of all minerals following the most recent changes to loot drops.


You do realise that a few things have changed since that graph was produced?


Yes hence why I didn't say the average amount of Minerals produced by gun mining is 50-55% but about half of that (based on changes CCP has made since then.)

Since you have made an appearance Malcanis. Any chance you can talk CCP into releasing information on just where and in what % values minerals are coming from?

Would solve a lot of speculation on both sides. Me and many of my friends see this as a potential reduction to important mid and high tier mineral availability, they typical "boo HS" folks say nothing will change. Would be a lot easier if we had concrete numbers to debate instead of speculation on both sides of the fence.