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High sec Mission runners just got completely screwed by CCP

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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#841 - 2014-03-30 12:55:34 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

Don't pretend you misunderstood, Jita itself is irrelevant, the important part is "main trade hub".
Main trade hub = better deals in the whole game due to bleeding edge competition.


Its VERY hard for me not to be rude at you

Why should ANYWHERE be placed as an arbitrary trade hub?

The trade goes where its beneficial for the market.

If Null Sec trade hubs start because of this change, then its proof that that market functions properly

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#842 - 2014-03-30 12:55:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Because it's normal that you make better deals at the main trade hub of the whole game, that's why; another way would mean no profit margin for trading and the end of it.

No, the profit margins would not change since you'd sell the same stuff at the same price. It would still be a trade hub because it's where you go to get everything purchased and sold.

And what's arbitrarily designated as “normal” does not excuse what is essentially and fundamentally unbalanced gameplay.

So again, why? Why should nullsec producers not be able to compete?
Deunan Tenephais
#843 - 2014-03-30 13:15:41 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Its VERY hard for me not to be rude at you

I do not care, and if you cannot control yourself then I advise you stop posting on this forum, or on any forum.

But after such words this discussion is over.

Tippia wrote:
And what's arbitrarily designated as “normal” does not excuse what is essentially and fundamentally unbalanced gameplay.

So again, why? Why should nullsec producers not be able to compete?

There is no reason, if they become competitive then the main trade hub could be moved to sov space for all I care, but it's unlikely because of the central position of empire space.

The only problem I see is lore-wise: the null alliances are young compared to NPC empires, they simply can't have the same level of infrastructures in a credible way, unless CCP retcon/state some things.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#844 - 2014-03-30 13:26:47 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Its VERY hard for me not to be rude at you

I do not care, and if you cannot control yourself then I advise you stop posting on this forum, or on any forum.

But after such words this discussion is over..


Its not my fault if you cant do things that are hard.

I gave you the benefit of a reply when you were rude, and if this is the best you can do I suggest you take some time and have a think about why people disagree with you and you get wound up about it.

My point stands as it is. Trade Hubs are NOT arbitrary, they go to where the money is to be made.

If you have no further comment then I shall assume you agree and I accept your apology.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Deunan Tenephais
#845 - 2014-03-30 13:36:36 UTC
Please stop, you are embarassing yourself and you're making me feel bad about myself for having to point it to you, so please stop.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#846 - 2014-03-30 13:40:07 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
There is no reason
Good.

Quote:
The only problem I see is lore-wise:
Lore is in every way utterly and completely irrelevant — even more so if it gets in the way of balanced gameplay.

So: null certainly should be buffed to the point where it's cheap enough to produce there and JF stuff for sale (at a profit) in Jita.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#847 - 2014-03-30 13:42:01 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Please stop, you are embarassing yourself and you're making me feel bad about myself for having to point it to you, so please stop.


Good comeback Garth

Please, if you cannot have a discussion like an adult, stop with the random poorly thought out insults.

They demean you and the non-Amarr races as a whole

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#848 - 2014-03-30 13:47:14 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

The only problem I see is lore-wise: the null alliances are young compared to NPC empires, they simply can't have the same level of infrastructures in a credible way, unless CCP retcon/state some things.


Britain holds the biggest minerals market, she is the worlds oldest industrial powerhouse. She mines very little.

Minerals like platinum are mined and refined in South Africa.

Iron ore in Australia.

Gold in Indonesia.


It makes perfect sense to have the infrastructure in newer nations from an RP point of view.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#849 - 2014-03-30 13:56:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

The only problem I see is lore-wise: the null alliances are young compared to NPC empires, they simply can't have the same level of infrastructures in a credible way, unless CCP retcon/state some things.


Britain holds the biggest minerals market, she is the worlds oldest industrial powerhouse. She mines very little.

Minerals like platinum are mined and refined in South Africa.

Iron ore in Australia.

Gold in Indonesia.


It makes perfect sense to have the infrastructure in newer nations from an RP point of view.


Pretty much what I said too +1

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Deunan Tenephais
#850 - 2014-03-30 14:03:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
The only problem I see is lore-wise:
Lore is in every way utterly and completely irrelevant — even more so if it gets in the way of balanced gameplay.

It's irrelevant to you and some other people, but it does not mean it is to everyone.
It's not even about the actual lore, what is asked is for the lore of the game to be coherent and have a minimal depth, other than that it can be whatever CCP want or deems necessary.
That's why if CCP want the rag-tag pirates to have better production capacities than entrenched and old empires they will have to explain it; if the explanation is sound and solid, then why not.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#851 - 2014-03-30 14:06:35 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
rag-tag pirates


Ah I see

The problem is you dont have a clear idea of what a lot of the Nullainces are really like.

They are certainly NOT rag-tag pirates.

They are Empires in their own right, at the very least like the East India Company was in the 19th century

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#852 - 2014-03-30 14:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
It's irrelevant to you and some other people, but it does not mean it is to everyone.
It is irrelevant to everyone because lore does never ever excuse imbalances and poor gameplay.
A bad game with good lore is a bad game made even worse by the fact that effort has been wasted on irrelevancies.

Trying to use lore as an excuse means you've run out of excuses and that the change should have happened so long that it borders on the silly. (And let's not even get into the fact that there's no lore reason against this change either…).
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#853 - 2014-03-30 14:11:12 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

Don't pretend you misunderstood, Jita itself is irrelevant, the important part is "main trade hub".
Main trade hub = better deals in the whole game due to bleeding edge competition.


Its VERY hard for me not to be rude at you

Why should ANYWHERE be placed as an arbitrary trade hub?

The trade goes where its beneficial for the market.

If Null Sec trade hubs start because of this change, then its proof that that market functions properly


LOL main trade hubs will NEVER EVER be in null sec. No trader with a single working brain cell will place his/her stock in a station that can be taken over at any time and have its access refused to anyone who wants to use it . There will always be profit in buying in high sec and transporting to null for sale.

uɐıssnɹ pɐǝɹ ʇ,uɐɔ ı ʇnq ʎɹɹos ɯ,ı
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#854 - 2014-03-30 14:13:25 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
The only problem I see is lore-wise:
Lore is in every way utterly and completely irrelevant — even more so if it gets in the way of balanced gameplay.

It's irrelevant to you and some other people, but it does not mean it is to everyone.
It's not even about the actual lore, what is asked is for the lore of the game to be coherent and have a minimal depth, other than that it can be whatever CCP want or deems necessary.
That's why if CCP want the rag-tag pirates to have better production capacities than entrenched and old empires they will have to explain it; if the explanation is sound and solid, then why not.


Us ragtag pirates control an empire as large or larger than the high sec empires. We have hundreds of systems under our banners with thousands of planets.
Deunan Tenephais
#855 - 2014-03-30 14:20:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

The only problem I see is lore-wise: the null alliances are young compared to NPC empires, they simply can't have the same level of infrastructures in a credible way, unless CCP retcon/state some things.


Britain holds the biggest minerals market, she is the worlds oldest industrial powerhouse. She mines very little.

Minerals like platinum are mined and refined in South Africa.

Iron ore in Australia.

Gold in Indonesia.


It makes perfect sense to have the infrastructure in newer nations from an RP point of view.

But do highseccers mine very little ?
Asteroids cannot be mined out in EVE, and the roids are strictly tiered per sec rating, which make sense gameplay-wise but is totally unrealistic.
If ores asked for different levels of skill to be refined (veldspar the easiest, mercoxit the hardest) due to decreasing familiarity in refining strangest and strangest ores it would make sense for highsec equipement to be worse than others, because it would be enough to correctly refine local ores, but it's not the case.

Frankly, highseccers/lowseccers/nullseccers/wormholers can have it all if they want, but EVE rules seems to become more and more abstract all in the name of balance, be it perceived or real, and I find it less and less interesting because of that.

I simply don't think playing in a purely mathematical environment is very fun.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#856 - 2014-03-30 14:25:36 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Frankly, highseccers/lowseccers/nullseccers/wormholers can have it all if they want, but EVE rules seems to become more and more abstract all in the name of balance
Good. Balance and good gameplay trumps everything, especially in a game where the story is created by the players.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#857 - 2014-03-30 14:29:34 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

But do highseccers mine very little ?
Asteroids cannot be mined out in EVE, and the roids are strictly tiered per sec rating, which make sense gameplay-wise but is totally unrealistic.
If ores asked for different levels of skill to be refined (veldspar the easiest, mercoxit the hardest) due to decreasing familiarity in refining strangest and strangest ores it would make sense for highsec equipement to be worse than others, because it would be enough to correctly refine local ores, but it's not the case.

Frankly, highseccers/lowseccers/nullseccers/wormholers can have it all if they want, but EVE rules seems to become more and more abstract all in the name of balance, be it perceived or real, and I find it less and less interesting because of that.

I simply don't think playing in a purely mathematical environment is very fun.


And we are back to it making no sense to reward the safest areas of space the same as the most dangerous.

No matter which argument you try here there is no reason at all to have high sec on par with null.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#858 - 2014-03-30 14:36:59 UTC
Prt Scr wrote:

LOL main trade hubs will NEVER EVER be in null sec. No trader with a single working brain cell will place his/her stock in a station that can be taken over at any time and have its access refused to anyone who wants to use it . There will always be profit in buying in high sec and transporting to null for sale.


Can I quote you on that when GoonEcom1 goes active?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#859 - 2014-03-30 14:37:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

But do highseccers mine very little ?
Asteroids cannot be mined out in EVE, and the roids are strictly tiered per sec rating, which make sense gameplay-wise but is totally unrealistic.
If ores asked for different levels of skill to be refined (veldspar the easiest, mercoxit the hardest) due to decreasing familiarity in refining strangest and strangest ores it would make sense for highsec equipement to be worse than others, because it would be enough to correctly refine local ores, but it's not the case.

Frankly, highseccers/lowseccers/nullseccers/wormholers can have it all if they want, but EVE rules seems to become more and more abstract all in the name of balance, be it perceived or real, and I find it less and less interesting because of that.

I simply don't think playing in a purely mathematical environment is very fun.


And we are back to it making no sense to reward the safest areas of space the same as the most dangerous.

No matter which argument you try here there is no reason at all to have high sec on par with null.


Actualy as EVE is run by CCP and they want profit, it makes sence that as most players are high sec carebears they should have better proits from mining /industry then null sec..they have fewer resources per capita

If high sec carebears are forced into a null sec environment they will just leave the game...and then EVE will be dead and it will all be your fault P

uɐıssnɹ pɐǝɹ ʇ,uɐɔ ı ʇnq ʎɹɹos ɯ,ı
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#860 - 2014-03-30 14:39:48 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Prt Scr wrote:

LOL main trade hubs will NEVER EVER be in null sec. No trader with a single working brain cell will place his/her stock in a station that can be taken over at any time and have its access refused to anyone who wants to use it . There will always be profit in buying in high sec and transporting to null for sale.


Can I quote you on that when GoonEcom1 goes active?


Yes i will be camping the station exit with my cyno ships and we will buttfuck ever undocking freighter . Grow a brain cell and use it. Where would you gank if Jita 4/4 was in null sec?

uɐıssnɹ pɐǝɹ ʇ,uɐɔ ı ʇnq ʎɹɹos ɯ,ı