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Why don't alliances require you to file taxes?

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masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-03-30 07:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
I've never been in a nullsec alliance that required players to do a tax return. It seems like a missed chance at alliance level income for funding SRP.

It wouldn't be that hard to implement, and it would be the kind of emergent gameplay people blog about, so why hasn't anyone done this yet?

EDIT: Since a lot of people don't get it, in the USA you have to file an income tax return with the IRS if you made any money during the year, and the IRS uses this to determine how much you owe them. So why doesn't a nullsec alliance set up their own equivalent and make members fill out tax forms to determine how much ISK they owe the alliance?

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Dave Stark
#2 - 2014-03-30 07:13:04 UTC
because it's a dumb idea.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 - 2014-03-30 07:13:16 UTC
Greyscale Dash
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-03-30 07:16:24 UTC
It could give small and medium sized alliances the income needed to compete with the moon goo cartels.
Prince Sanguine
#5 - 2014-03-30 07:17:27 UTC
Well if my income doesn't come from ratting or sites why should I be taxed? I like holding people hostage and making them ransom. It seems like you should join a terribad alliance that makes their corps pay per member just so you can have a massive list of people you can't shoot

Everytime you read this you are required to send 100 million isk directly to me.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-03-30 07:20:04 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
Prince Sanguine wrote:
Well if my income doesn't come from ratting or sites why should I be taxed? I like holding people hostage and making them ransom. It seems like you should join a terribad alliance that makes their corps pay per member just so you can have a massive list of people you can't shoot


I'm not talking about in-game taxes collected by game mechanics, I am asking why no alliance has set up a revenue service and required individual income taxes to be filed by all members or they will be penalized. It seems like good emergent gameplay and a great income source for the alliance.

So you'd have to declare all your ratting, mining, and industry income and pay the appropriate ISK tax each quarter ontop of the in-game corporate level tax mechanic.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#7 - 2014-03-30 07:20:51 UTC
Both the alliances i ran had a member tax, or fee, i charged 10m per member, per corp, per month. so if you had 30 members you would pay a 300m isk fee at the start of the next month

now with that said.. i have to add.. a huh? to this idea, as in wtf are you talking about?

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#8 - 2014-03-30 07:21:35 UTC
i think it's because ITS A GAME. Stop trying to make eve into RL. Big smile

Besides, the pubelords already take enough from the serfs.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-03-30 07:21:38 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Both the alliances i ran had a member tax, or fee, i charged 10m per member, per corp, per month. so if you had 30 members you would pay a 300m isk fee at the start of the next month

now with that said.. i have to add.. a huh? to this idea, as in wtf are you talking about?


Why doesn't any alliance require a tax return to be filed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_return_%28United_States%29

Things are only impossible until they are not.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#10 - 2014-03-30 07:21:42 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Prince Sanguine wrote:
Well if my income doesn't come from ratting or sites why should I be taxed? I like holding people hostage and making them ransom. It seems like you should join a terribad alliance that makes their corps pay per member just so you can have a massive list of people you can't shoot


I'm not talking about in-game taxes collected by game mechanics, I am asking why no alliance has set up a revenue service and required individual income taxes to be filed by all members or they will be penalized. It seems like good emergent gameplay and a great income source for the alliance.

So you'd have to declare all your ratting, mining, and industry income and pay the appropriate ISK tax each quarter ontop of the in-game corporate level tax mechanic.


how do you calculate your members income? you can;t

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-03-30 07:22:48 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Prince Sanguine wrote:
Well if my income doesn't come from ratting or sites why should I be taxed? I like holding people hostage and making them ransom. It seems like you should join a terribad alliance that makes their corps pay per member just so you can have a massive list of people you can't shoot


I'm not talking about in-game taxes collected by game mechanics, I am asking why no alliance has set up a revenue service and required individual income taxes to be filed by all members or they will be penalized. It seems like good emergent gameplay and a great income source for the alliance.

So you'd have to declare all your ratting, mining, and industry income and pay the appropriate ISK tax each quarter ontop of the in-game corporate level tax mechanic.


how do you calculate your members income? you can;t


You rely on self reporting and voluntary payment backed up by using the API keys to make sure they aren't lying.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#12 - 2014-03-30 07:27:35 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Prince Sanguine wrote:
Well if my income doesn't come from ratting or sites why should I be taxed? I like holding people hostage and making them ransom. It seems like you should join a terribad alliance that makes their corps pay per member just so you can have a massive list of people you can't shoot


I'm not talking about in-game taxes collected by game mechanics, I am asking why no alliance has set up a revenue service and required individual income taxes to be filed by all members or they will be penalized. It seems like good emergent gameplay and a great income source for the alliance.

So you'd have to declare all your ratting, mining, and industry income and pay the appropriate ISK tax each quarter ontop of the in-game corporate level tax mechanic.


how do you calculate your members income? you can;t


You rely on self reporting and voluntary payment backed up by using the API keys to make sure they aren't lying.


so make an alliance and see if it works. shrugs

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Prince Sanguine
#13 - 2014-03-30 07:34:01 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Prince Sanguine wrote:
Well if my income doesn't come from ratting or sites why should I be taxed? I like holding people hostage and making them ransom. It seems like you should join a terribad alliance that makes their corps pay per member just so you can have a massive list of people you can't shoot


I'm not talking about in-game taxes collected by game mechanics, I am asking why no alliance has set up a revenue service and required individual income taxes to be filed by all members or they will be penalized. It seems like good emergent gameplay and a great income source for the alliance.

So you'd have to declare all your ratting, mining, and industry income and pay the appropriate ISK tax each quarter ontop of the in-game corporate level tax mechanic.


how do you calculate your members income? you can;t


You rely on self reporting and voluntary payment backed up by using the API keys to make sure they aren't lying.


You couldn't keep track and no one would want to take the extra time doing something so ridiculous every time they rat. It's a game, not a job.

Everytime you read this you are required to send 100 million isk directly to me.
Catherine Wolfisheim
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-03-30 07:37:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Wolfisheim
I just feel that's something that could only work for a niche group that has an established, secure economy and can make demands outs of its membership. First, and foremost such an alliance would end up having the obligation to provide security to the pilot that fills additional alliance taxes set by the alliance per sé. Secondly, any alliance that would tax its pilots should also have the responsibility of providing transparency on the information regarding this additional taxation for discouragement towards any scam within the alliance. Finally, all this information about where is the money from, where it goes or where it is invested must be publicly and freely shared within the alliance.

Following those three rules it would be possible for a well-established alliance to define its own taxation in a respectable manner towards its pilots. The difficulty comes at introducing a new level of bureaucracy between the pilots and their alliance, hence it could cause potential disappointment from the pilots for a time. (Could be a short time, could be a long time, could lead the alliance to demise)
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-03-30 07:45:58 UTC
The reason why is very simple. In Eve, taxes are paid by PAYE. So there is no need to manually file a tax return because it is all done automatically.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-03-30 07:50:23 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
The reason why is very simple. In Eve, taxes are paid by PAYE. So there is no need to manually file a tax return because it is all done automatically.


That tax is only applied on ISK earned through missions, bounties, etc. It does not apply to industry tasks, ore mined, and other incomes.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2014-03-30 07:50:24 UTC
Because then the alliance would have to have someone at hand to audit all the returns, and apparently, griefing isn't allowed in this game.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#18 - 2014-03-30 07:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
The Goons charge a stupidity tax at recruitment.

Its a stupidity tax in that anyone who pays it is stupid.

It's followed soon after by the clone tax. They pod you back to a fresh clone and keep all your stuff.

I think more Corps should implement similar tax systems (just dont impersonate a Goon or Chribba while doing it).
Catherine Wolfisheim
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-03-30 07:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Wolfisheim
Scipio Artelius wrote:
The Goons charge a stupidity tax at recruitment.

Its a stupidity tax in that anyone who pays it is stupid.

It's followed soon after by the clone tax. They pod you back to a fresh clone and keep all your stuff.

I think more Corps should implement similar tax systems (just dont impersonate a Goon or Chribba while doung it).

However, you can call them stupid, but they hold their clutches on the game when compared to the competition. There must be something they do right.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#20 - 2014-03-30 07:59:24 UTC
Well there is the 2 mil "tax"/payment for corp per month for any alliance.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
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