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Are Links Too Much?
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#201 - 2014-03-28 17:31:50 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Let's just put them on grid and then everyone will be happy.


Because reading other peoples posts is too hard.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#202 - 2014-03-29 00:09:30 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Let's just put them on grid and then everyone will be happy.


on grid is bit complicated, if you think about interceptor who tackle enemies some where in the system they would never benefit about links.

People who wants links to on grid only think too small.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#203 - 2014-03-29 00:32:06 UTC
Off grid boosting is risk averse pvp. You can dress it up, put nice shoes on it, give it all kinds of reasons that it's ok, but it isn't.

Everyone knows it - it's just that some folks are afraid to lose their low low low risk advantage. It's like the empire neutral logi crap that took years to fix. This may take years also, but the inevitable will eventually come to pass.

Personally I don't see how you guys can stomache doing it little lone come on the forums and defend it. The place for a command ship is in the fight. Just man up and put you assets in the fight. They do super damage btw, playing cowardly lion with them is just a waste of DPS.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#204 - 2014-03-29 04:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Off grid boosting is risk averse pvp. You can dress it up, put nice shoes on it, give it all kinds of reasons that it's ok, but it isn't.

Everyone knows it - it's just that some folks are afraid to lose their low low low risk advantage. It's like the empire neutral logi crap that took years to fix. This may take years also, but the inevitable will eventually come to pass.

Personally I don't see how you guys can stomache doing it little lone come on the forums and defend it. The place for a command ship is in the fight. Just man up and put you assets in the fight. They do super damage btw, playing cowardly lion with them is just a waste of DPS.



Im sorry, but its obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. No offense.

Ill let you get back to gate camping quiet null sec pipes.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#205 - 2014-03-29 09:37:37 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Off grid boosting is risk averse pvp. You can dress it up, put nice shoes on it, give it all kinds of reasons that it's ok, but it isn't.

Everyone knows it - it's just that some folks are afraid to lose their low low low risk advantage. It's like the empire neutral logi crap that took years to fix. This may take years also, but the inevitable will eventually come to pass.

Personally I don't see how you guys can stomache doing it little lone come on the forums and defend it. The place for a command ship is in the fight. Just man up and put you assets in the fight. They do super damage btw, playing cowardly lion with them is just a waste of DPS.



as i said people who want on grid links think too small, most of fights are over before your command ships arrives to grid.

Maybe you should try something else than just blob everything with command ships and logistics and T3 ships.
Greggles Midboss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2014-03-29 12:33:34 UTC
Why is this thread still going....
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#207 - 2014-03-29 13:20:58 UTC
Greggles Midboss wrote:
Why is this thread still going....


11 pages is not statistically significant.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#208 - 2014-03-29 13:47:23 UTC
Just for the record for you judgemental ninnies that think you have me pegged. I don't live in null. I've never lived in null. A large gang for me is 12. Please don't correlate that I like commanc ships on grid to 'because I fly in massive null blobby fleets' - If you look at my kb you'll plainly see you're just making youselves look ninny-ish.

You guys are so risk averse that you can't even fathom there are pilots in this game that are all about putting their stuff on the line. Sweet mother of pearl - it's just a ship. Get it on grid and blow some stuff up.

I do think big. I think about the game long term. I think about the health of pvp overall. I'm no expert - I'm just a player that's been around small gang pvp for years. I've been on various comms with hundreds of guys over the years. I'll say this about that. There are a lot of folks that are risk averse out there. Off grid boosting is just another manifestation of that.

On a side note - snakes were nerfed because crows were going over 10k m/s. It was dumb and they fixed it.

Anyway, if you can afford a boosting account - you can afford to put the booster on grid. Stop being a bunch of Marys
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#209 - 2014-03-29 13:59:56 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Just for the record for you judgemental ninnies that think you have me pegged. I don't live in null. I've never lived in null. A large gang for me is 12. Please don't correlate that I like commanc ships on grid to 'because I fly in massive null blobby fleets' - If you look at my kb you'll plainly see you're just making youselves look ninny-ish.

You guys are so risk averse that you can't even fathom there are pilots in this game that are all about putting their stuff on the line. Sweet mother of pearl - it's just a ship. Get it on grid and blow some stuff up.

I do think big. I think about the game long term. I think about the health of pvp overall. I'm no expert - I'm just a player that's been around small gang pvp for years. I've been on various comms with hundreds of guys over the years. I'll say this about that. There are a lot of folks that are risk averse out there. Off grid boosting is just another manifestation of that.

On a side note - snakes were nerfed because crows were going over 10k m/s. It was dumb and they fixed it.

Anyway, if you can afford a boosting account - you can afford to put the booster on grid. Stop being a bunch of Marys


links has been there as long as i have played EVE and those have not stopped pvp on long term so you are thinking small once again.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#210 - 2014-03-29 14:45:01 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Just for the record for you judgemental ninnies that think you have me pegged. I don't live in null. I've never lived in null. A large gang for me is 12. Please don't correlate that I like commanc ships on grid to 'because I fly in massive null blobby fleets' - If you look at my kb you'll plainly see you're just making youselves look ninny-ish.

You guys are so risk averse that you can't even fathom there are pilots in this game that are all about putting their stuff on the line. Sweet mother of pearl - it's just a ship. Get it on grid and blow some stuff up.

I do think big. I think about the game long term. I think about the health of pvp overall. I'm no expert - I'm just a player that's been around small gang pvp for years. I've been on various comms with hundreds of guys over the years. I'll say this about that. There are a lot of folks that are risk averse out there. Off grid boosting is just another manifestation of that.

On a side note - snakes were nerfed because crows were going over 10k m/s. It was dumb and they fixed it.

Anyway, if you can afford a boosting account - you can afford to put the booster on grid. Stop being a bunch of Marys


My booster is on a grid, just not the grid i am fighting on. If you are so lazy that you cannot take the fight to my boosters grid thats not my fault.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2014-03-30 00:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Keko Khaan
Read all the 11 pages. Alot stupid comments and comparisons in there imho. Some funny and even some good toughts.

Anyway i do think offgrid boosting shouldnt be removed. They are allready vulnerable. You can probe them down, alpha at station or catch at gates. You know how to decloak cloakies on gates right? However if them needs to be nerfed just nerf the amount of boost they give. Lets say for example make 30% bonus to 20% bonus. Maybe even add sig penalty on activated links for easier scanning to make ppl happy.

I havent ever used personal links myself. Im about to finish my T2 link alt training tho. Which i trained mostly to catch those who do kitey solo stuff with links. However hostile links havent ever bothered me that much. Never raged about it nor logged out cause of it. Havent even seen so much links on solo fights tbh. Sometimes yes but its not that big deal imo. I know theres also alot fleets roaming out there without links..

Im not going to bring links on grid myself mostly because dualboxing with 2 accounts on grid with one monitor is something im not intrested.


And at the end i think bad players are bigger problem. Those who cries about links even when you dont use them...
Ella Echerie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2014-03-30 04:59:31 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Let's just put them on grid and then everyone will be happy.


on grid is bit complicated, if you think about interceptor who tackle enemies some where in the system they would never benefit about links.

People who wants links to on grid only think too small.


Why should an interceptor who tackles enemies some where in the system benefit from said links? They already have the tools at their disposal to do their job.

Bad Messenger wrote:
as i said people who want on grid links think too small, most of fights are over before your command ships arrives to grid.


The fight that is over before CS lands on grid is likely to be destroyer/frigate sized hulls, and on a small scale. Why should a large hulled ship that can't even get to the fight quick enough have an impact on the outcome?

I'm a pretty inexperienced pvper, I've never used links and out of 70 or so solo fights I don't think I've ever faced a linked ship. So they haven't been a problem or a boon for me, but on face value and from a logical risk/reward standpoint they do seem a bit out of line. I don't know how to fix them though, putting them on grid would require quite a few other changes to make it viable.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#213 - 2014-03-30 08:49:03 UTC
Ella Echerie wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Let's just put them on grid and then everyone will be happy.


on grid is bit complicated, if you think about interceptor who tackle enemies some where in the system they would never benefit about links.

People who wants links to on grid only think too small.


Why should an interceptor who tackles enemies some where in the system benefit from said links? They already have the tools at their disposal to do their job.

Bad Messenger wrote:
as i said people who want on grid links think too small, most of fights are over before your command ships arrives to grid.


The fight that is over before CS lands on grid is likely to be destroyer/frigate sized hulls, and on a small scale. Why should a large hulled ship that can't even get to the fight quick enough have an impact on the outcome?

I'm a pretty inexperienced pvper, I've never used links and out of 70 or so solo fights I don't think I've ever faced a linked ship. So they haven't been a problem or a boon for me, but on face value and from a logical risk/reward standpoint they do seem a bit out of line. I don't know how to fix them though, putting them on grid would require quite a few other changes to make it viable.


point is . there is nothing to fix, links are fine as they are now. You can kill them if you want, but whiners are just lazy people who want that CCP kills links for them so they do not have to think out of the box.
Lilith Velkor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2014-03-31 08:27:31 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really.


I dont get that either, as it stands you'll get acceptable tank, cloaky warp, bubble immunity and workable dps, all while running a warfare link.

Now name a command ship that does that, and we can talk about t3 needing a buff in that regard.



About all the "probe it down, alpha on station etc" suggestions, you have to realize the actual problem is not large-scale pvp, links are absolutely fine there.

The problem is with small-scale and solo pvp, where they tend to upset a very fragile balance, mostly when we are talking frigate size hulls. The whole "alpha on station" deal is gonna be a problem in frigate hulls, as is the "decloak and kill on gate" if you dont have the luxury of a decent size gang.

Besides, and please excuse my ignorance regarding hisec mechanics, I believe concord will not really like you attacking a booster ship that didnt commit a crime.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#215 - 2014-03-31 10:05:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
Lilith Velkor wrote:
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really.


I dont get that either, as it stands you'll get acceptable tank, cloaky warp, bubble immunity and workable dps, all while running a warfare link.

Now name a command ship that does that, and we can talk about t3 needing a buff in that regard.



About all the "probe it down, alpha on station etc" suggestions, you have to realize the actual problem is not large-scale pvp, links are absolutely fine there.

The problem is with small-scale and solo pvp, where they tend to upset a very fragile balance, mostly when we are talking frigate size hulls. The whole "alpha on station" deal is gonna be a problem in frigate hulls, as is the "decloak and kill on gate" if you dont have the luxury of a decent size gang.

Besides, and please excuse my ignorance regarding hisec mechanics, I believe concord will not really like you attacking a booster ship that didnt commit a crime.


EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#216 - 2014-03-31 11:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Bad Messenger wrote:

EVE is not solo game, get some friends


I do get tired of people putting solo PVP on a pedestal as though its anything more than a glorified rock/paper/scissors game.

Entering into a fair fight in EVE is doing it wrong. Balance should not be focussed at the 1v1 level.

You cant brag about hard mode solo pvp while at the same time grumbling about other people not playing the way you want them to.
Lilith Velkor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2014-03-31 12:05:07 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:

EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships.


Well, if you feel the booster warps too slow for your inty, bridge them both to the grid with a titan. It's not a solo game, so get a friend with a titan, it's less effort than suicide ganking a damnation even. See, this line of argumentation isn't going anywhere.


What this whole discussion boils down to is this:

Why should fleet boosters not be required to be on grid, while every other force multiplier needs to be? I still havent heard a single valid argument.


And just to avoid any misunderstandings, we use boosters too. On grid sometimes, off grid sometimes, depends on the actual gang setup.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#218 - 2014-03-31 15:13:02 UTC
Lilith Velkor wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:

EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships.


Well, if you feel the booster warps too slow for your inty, bridge them both to the grid with a titan. It's not a solo game, so get a friend with a titan, it's less effort than suicide ganking a damnation even. See, this line of argumentation isn't going anywhere.


What this whole discussion boils down to is this:

Why should fleet boosters not be required to be on grid, while every other force multiplier needs to be? I still havent heard a single valid argument.


And just to avoid any misunderstandings, we use boosters too. On grid sometimes, off grid sometimes, depends on the actual gang setup.


you sure know that you can not light up cyno everywhere.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#219 - 2014-03-31 18:56:10 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:


point is . there is nothing to fix, links are fine as they are now. You can kill them if you want, but whiners are just lazy people who want that CCP kills links for them so they do not have to think out of the box.


Your message is bad....

Links are unbalanced, and only willfully ignorant players claim otherwise.

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#220 - 2014-03-31 19:37:37 UTC
The on/off grid thing is a smokescreen, links are hugely overpowered wherever they are. In a world where we pay around 60-100 mill for a single ship to increase its tackle range by 25-40%, the existence of a 2 mill mod that gives 24% range to every ship in your fleet is absurdly OP.