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CSM Feedback to CCP

First post First post First post
Author
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-03-29 10:42:11 UTC
2

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Lady Areola Fappington
#22 - 2014-03-29 10:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Number one please.

This is a game about spaceships, blowing up spaceships, and assorted economical results from that. Getting your spaceship blown up does not give you license to harass other people.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#23 - 2014-03-29 10:49:17 UTC
2,35 but round it down to 2 for simplicity
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-03-29 10:49:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I was going to point out how there's probably a viable spectrum of solutions between the three presented options.

Then I saw people actually choosing option 1.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Option 2.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#25 - 2014-03-29 10:50:49 UTC
None of those options unfortunately.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-03-29 10:51:11 UTC
2

If CCP set firm definitive lines on harassment people would find ways around the guidelines set as clearly some people put a lot of time and effort into griefing others.

As we grow up we are taught the difference between right and wrong. I would like to believe 99% of the eve community can at least tell the difference.

Any questionable activitys need to be investigated and delt with on a case by case basis.

If you question a activity in game, and feel compelled to ask a GM for guidance as to if its right or wrong, deep down, you know its wrong, don't do it.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...

Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-03-29 10:51:47 UTC
Option 2 please.

Drawing a clear line - like in option 1 - would:
a) Ruin a special aspect of Eve.
b) Not be of any help anyways; since people would just try to tip-toe the line as close as possible.

Option 3 is impractical.

Let's please trust ourselves in our judgement; even if we disagreed on "The Bonus Round".
Prince Kobol
#28 - 2014-03-29 10:53:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Number one please.

This is a game about spaceships, blowing up spaceships, and assorted economical results from that. Getting your spaceship blown up does not give you license to harass other people.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal..

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

Personally I would take option 2 all day long simply because whilst option 1 is used in most games, none of those games have the kind of playerbase we have.

By that I mean the kind of player base that embraces emergent gameplay, metagmaing and will always try to find new and interesting ways around the rules.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-03-29 10:53:44 UTC
The options given are pretty bad, since clearly (2) is the only realistic option and they all seem to be besides the point anyway. The point of the objections to the announcement seem to be inconsistency of application, which in turn creates requests of further clarification and a sense of arbitrary use of power by CCP, which in turn creates feelings of insecurity and injustice. Some people don't get why doing relatively harmless things on their own are a perma ban offense, while death threats and racism are seemingly being excused by pleading to an emotional state. This seems silly to some, since that will include about 99% of all death threat cases. Each case of course separate, but surely there are a lot of shared criteria that influence the decision making process.

That in mind what I would propose is that the current rules are fine, but try to get CCP to expand on what things are considered when making such decisions. So instead of trying to argue where the fuzzy line should be placed, get them to talk about the criteria at least a little and maybe give few major ones as examples of things taken to account when deciding such cases. This would not make the line clear, but it would help provide a compass for the people struggling with using their own common sense. Is emotional state a big factor in general or is it only considered when the target has intentionally goaded the other side? What about one time events versus behavior that has continued for an extended period of time? Is the humane behavior of the accused a mitigating factor after it has become clear, that the other player is in anguish? You get the general idea.
Grayland Aubaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-03-29 10:56:21 UTC
#2
Dave Stark
#31 - 2014-03-29 11:01:53 UTC
within the context of eve, 2.
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#32 - 2014-03-29 11:06:05 UTC
2

Absolutely and most definitely.
Big Lynx
#33 - 2014-03-29 11:08:42 UTC
2
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#34 - 2014-03-29 11:11:56 UTC
2)
Don Aubaris
#35 - 2014-03-29 11:16:06 UTC
There is only one valid option 2.

Option1 will have to be so restrictive that it will kill the that unique part of Eve where some people find new stuff to perform scams/actions.

Option3 is not reallly acceptable to me

But option 2 needs to be worked out.. The current situation only leads to conflict.
CCP does not have to draw a fix line in the sand, but there must be a line.
But it should give public examples of correct and non-correct behavior instead of hiding behind 'privacy issues'.
There still will be people that will cross that line that is not so fixed and get punished for it...but hey : that's life.

To prevent conflicts CCP (and/or CSM) should have a service where people can request advice on their idea upfront.
And maintain a list of approved things.

Can I ask someone to sing for 3 mibutes to save his ship? ===> yes
Can I keep someone busy for hours to save his assets => no

Thebriwan
LUX Uls Xystus
#36 - 2014-03-29 11:26:27 UTC
2

Because every other choice would destroy the EVE we know.
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
#37 - 2014-03-29 11:27:31 UTC
2, with shade of 1 in it. Let the banhammer hit sometimes, let the tear addicts live in fear that the harassment they do in real life may end their gaming in EVE for good. Normal adult can scam, joke, rage and so forth without crossing the line, but those who do feel the need to toe the line constantly should, sometimes, find themselves in search of other game where they can test such boundaries.

As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#38 - 2014-03-29 11:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Delt0r Garsk
Malcanis wrote:
...., regardless of the clear trend of escalating unpleasantness.

I don't believe that. Do you have any data, rather than the rants of the few vocal minority on the forums?

Personally i vote for 2. Despite the other games using 1, they are far more unpleasant communities in my experience.

Eve is a great game with a great community. Where entire corps are built around helping new players find there way, not by CCP but by other players. Sure there is the odd nasty person, and most of them seem to do the forum thing. The rest are having fun flying internet space pixels.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#39 - 2014-03-29 11:33:05 UTC
In an ideal world I'd like option 3 because of free speech etc, but realistically option 2 is the best way forward.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#40 - 2014-03-29 11:45:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

(1) CCP should define abuse and harrassment at the lowest level possible so that essentially any potentially offensive communication is deemed unacceptable, and everyone has a clear idea of where the line is: don't say anything bad at all to another player. This is the choice of virtually every MMO in the game industry.

(2) CCP should continue with the status quo, and trust the members of the EVE community to have the adult intelligence and humanity to exercise discretion in how far they can take their communication with other players. And having exercised that discretion, to also be aware that we're all members of the game community and that while every kind of in-game space-villainy is legitimate, we're all actual human beings behind the screen and we should be careful with our out of game actions to each other. This option is, so far as I am aware, unique to CCP and EVE; if other MMOs place this level of trust and faith in their players I am unaware of them.

(3) CCP should stand back and allow without comment the members of the community complete free reign in using CCP's IP and property to engage in and facilitate whatever activities they desire, regardless of damage done and regardless of the clear trend of escalating unpleasantness. This option, so far as I am aware, is not available anywhere and may in fact contravene the laws of quite a few nations including several which comprise large sections of the EVE playerbase.

No. 2 seems to be the only viable option here.

No. 1 is impossible to accomplish and this very discussion should be proof enough. Remember the discussion about the GM clarification on rewording of the Terms of Service in regard to "impersonation"? It was a different topic but for the largest part the same discussion we have now, even with the same arguments and the same requests for more "clarity". The only reason why people are asking for more clarity is either because they refuse to use common sense or because they intend to find loopholes to circumvent the rules - neither approach is worthy to be protected.

No. 3 is impossible because CCP is required by RL law to provide certain services and to police certain behaviour. I'm no expert on Icelandic law, but I do know something about EU law and I know where the game-servers are located.