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Doctrine for the new BC's?
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Songbird
#1 - 2011-11-30 11:20:49 UTC
I was looking at the tier 3 BC elements and was trying to figure out how to use these new hulls.

1- heavy guns.
2- high speed.
3- low tank

obviously solo is not a good option - no drones and poor tracking - also no utility highs.

sniping at 80-120 km works but what stops the target from warping out ? The ranges speeds and tanks kinda remind me of the zealot , except with more dps.

If I had to guess I'd say a few of these with 2 scimis and frigate scouts and tacklers could do a lot of good.

Hit and run sounds at least like a possibility.

Tornado feels a lot like a mini mach - obviously less range and ROF but higher alpha :P and much cheaper and also similar speed and handling.

NAga will have no problem sniping at 250 even but is it fast enough to be out of point range when it gets probed and warped on?

I see potential and looking forward to see the experienced FC's put these into action :)
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-11-30 11:24:59 UTC
Songbird wrote:
I was looking at the tier 3 BC elements and was trying to figure out how to use these new hulls.

1- heavy guns.
2- high speed.
3- low tank

obviously solo is not a good option - no drones and poor tracking - also no utility highs.

sniping at 80-120 km works but what stops the target from warping out ? The ranges speeds and tanks kinda remind me of the zealot , except with more dps.

If I had to guess I'd say a few of these with 2 scimis and frigate scouts and tacklers could do a lot of good.

Hit and run sounds at least like a possibility.

Tornado feels a lot like a mini mach - obviously less range and ROF but higher alpha :P and much cheaper and also similar speed and handling.

NAga will have no problem sniping at 250 even but is it fast enough to be out of point range when it gets probed and warped on?

I see potential and looking forward to see the experienced FC's put these into action :)




Yeah small roaming gangs are going to be interesting.

Basically until the prices come down I have really experimented with them on TQ. They pretty much have to be satalites against against smaller targets....

....however I can't WAIT to catch a Drake with a Tornado and make up for months of trying to plink them from range and being forced to jump out. Its ON there.
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#3 - 2011-11-30 11:27:56 UTC
Tornado doctrine:

All 1400's
All sensor boosters
All gyrostabs
Get a few friends to buy and fit the same.
Warp in to target.
Lock a pod in 1.3 seconds.
Lock anything bigger in an even shorter time.
Fire.
Win.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-30 11:28:56 UTC
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Tornado doctrine:

All 1400's
All sensor boosters
All gyrostabs
Get a few friends to buy and fit the same.
Warp in to target..
Lock a pod in 1.3 seconds or less.
Lock anything bigger in an even shorter time.
Fire.
Win.




Boring.


I can already do that with a Maelstrom.
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#5 - 2011-11-30 11:30:25 UTC
Onictus wrote:
I can already do that with a Maelstrom.


Not nearly as quickly or cheaply.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-11-30 11:34:20 UTC
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Onictus wrote:
I can already do that with a Maelstrom.


Not nearly as quickly or cheaply.



Not very fun either, and if it is a situation where you need to alpha brick BS's with logi I damn sure am not doing it in a 30k EHP Tornado.

A little hack and slash nano-faggotry with a Buddy in a ceptor...that is what I looking for.
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-11-30 11:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Fix My Lasers
Onictus wrote:
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Tornado doctrine:

All 1400's
All sensor boosters
All gyrostabs
Get a few friends to buy and fit the same.
Warp in to target..
Lock a pod in 1.3 seconds or less.
Lock anything bigger in an even shorter time.
Fire.
Win.




Boring.


I can already do that with a Maelstrom.


Yup. Can do that and even more with a Maelstrom.
The price isn't much lower then a Tornado.
You also have a very good tanking on Mael. Plus also good protection against smaller targets like frigs and other flies.

All pros for Mael.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html
Velonad Tyldamere
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2011-11-30 11:59:43 UTC
Look at all these scrubs who have literally no idea how to properly fit a ship.
Songbird
#9 - 2011-11-30 13:35:53 UTC
Fits follow the tactics which you are hoping to use.

I definitely do not think these will do well in a short range battle especially if facing smaller faster targets with basically the same tank. Both tornado and oracle can hit decently at 40-50 with the ac/pulse guns but how would hybrids cope? Blasters and tiny buffer tanks make me cringe and rails are not exactly the dream weapon. We shall see - nothing on youtube yet, other than sisi videos.
Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
#10 - 2011-11-30 14:23:51 UTC
Obvious answer answer is with Falcon
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-11-30 14:39:32 UTC
They are fast, agile, deliver good DPS at middle range...I bet on 100km range setup whatever the ship. Under a probed warp in, and further than most of actuals fleets comp.

Maybe we'll see long range BS Fleet reappear on field to conteract them...And a lot of bombs's runs on their faces :)

Second choice :

Pure close range DPS + AB. I don't what it can give against Arma / Baddons Fleet...
Seigfried Hakaari
Dark Gaia Corporation
#12 - 2011-11-30 14:46:26 UTC
It's simple. Certain types of Cap blobs are incredibly strong, to the point where it's oft said that the only counter is to simply have more Capitals. These ships are designed so that the <1 year grunts in your corp can still help kill Capitals in some meaningful way, even when they can't fly a Battleship efficiently and don't have the ISK for an extremely expensive Tech2/Faction ship.

They're every bit disposable Anti-Capital fleet ships following the Swarm doctrine.

If you're capable of flying a BS properly, yeah, you probably don't need it, but big Guns are big Guns and when you need more big Guns, these have big Guns.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#13 - 2011-11-30 14:52:55 UTC
Seigfried Hakaari wrote:
It's simple. Certain types of Cap blobs are incredibly strong, to the point where it's oft said that the only counter is to simply have more Capitals. These ships are designed so that the <1 year grunts in your corp can still help kill Capitals in some meaningful way, even when they can't fly a Battleship efficiently and don't have the ISK for an extremely expensive Tech2/Faction ship.

They're every bit disposable Anti-Capital fleet ships following the Swarm doctrine.

If you're capable of flying a BS properly, yeah, you probably don't need it, but big Guns are big Guns and when you need more big Guns, these have big Guns.


This.
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-11-30 15:02:59 UTC
Hummm. Explain it ?

To kill Supers / Titan with it, you'll need low sig radius and preferably a lot of close range DPS. But...you need to kill subcap before. If it's a BS Fleet, you might did it, if it's ahax, drakes etc..., you won't.
Aeon Noblemagus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#15 - 2011-11-30 15:44:20 UTC
i think we will see lots of these for WH pos bashes or people using one to gank a lone noctis/drake in a wormhole
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2011-11-30 16:35:17 UTC
mineral price for tornado is 41 million

so.... the current prices of 100 mil are not reflective of real values that will be once production steps up for a week, with fully research blueprints... do people realize that everything in game is made by players, its not like the prices are set by some arbitrary NPCS.